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Broadband speed

Anotherone
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Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Broadband speed

Actually JIm, my immediate reaction is it's been banded, but a reset before the wiring is resolved would be a bad idea.
Edit: The Plusnet estimate of 7.5Mbps will most likely be based on historic performance with the current wiring. Those attenuation figures suggest that when we've got that resolved the connection ought to run somewhere near 20Mbps with a bit of luck (co-incidentally close to the default Current Line speed setting!).
Oldjim
Resting Legend
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Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: Broadband speed

Not with an upload of 288kbps
Anotherone
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Re: Broadband speed

Whilst I'm still ploughing through this wiring, one obvious comment - that extension Ringer (shown in pic Phone sockets 004 in the OP) - should only ever be plugged into the line via a filter. If it's on that plug in extension wiring that's where the filter should go, but I need to double check what you've said re the last remark.
Anotherone
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Broadband speed

Quote from: Oldjim
Not with an upload of 288kbps

If something undesirable/faulty is currently connected with out a filter that can cause a similar effect.  Let's get the wiring resolved and then see what the stats are.
Anotherone
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Broadband speed

@TJBrentor
Hi there. OK, I think I've got a good mental picture of everything - well at least on what you've posted so far. There are some follow up questions as there are some unknowns at present.
Let's start with the BT incoming cable - you mentioned it was an underground feed - I assume there is a point where it comes to the surface - can you see that? Are there any boxes externally that the cable goes to, or does it go straight through the wall to the GPO connector box? Pictures of any external boxes and wires going to/from will be highly desirable.
The cable with the plug near the GPO box & Master socket - can you follow it all the way and see what is connected to it at any point. If it just terminates in a socket where you said an extension cable and the ringer connects, can we have a picture of the socket and its wiring and this "extension cable" please. I assume that the "box" you mentioned that you can't get into is in fact this ringer box - just double checking, if you could confirm?
The cable that disappears into the wall to the left of the GPO box, the one with the orange, blue, green and brown wires in it - any idea where this goes? Can you have a good look around for any other connector boxes where this wire might end and anything else be connected to it?
The extension socket with the filter on the wall next to it - have you any idea where the cable that is feeding this comes from?
Finally,  could you loosely describe where all these various sockets are and in relation to the master and one another - eg. hall (or whatever) for master, adjacent room for...... and so on, if on another floor, please say.  Include rough distances in metres if you can.
Also where would be the most convenient point for you to place your modem/router?
Also for clarity, when talking about connections to the sockets, you'll note that they are numbered 1...6, for clarity please refer to terminal numbers on them rather than just the physical position based on a photo, thanks.
cedlor
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Registered: ‎02-04-2015

Re: Broadband speed

Thanks anotherone

I have done a diagram but it doesnt help  the bit I am stuck on is that it appears there are 2 cables coming into the connector - (both of which have wires  that are sole coloured which suggests they are are cables coming in from BT) though the white one MAY not be incoming!!
The master socket essentially now has only one cable in  with multicolouted wire and that cable goes to the connector.
The RJ2 box with the filter always plugged in  has only one cable  BUT it is Multicoloured
May just be me but unless one of the cables with the self coloured wires is connected somewhere to the cable witht the multicoloured wire to RJ2 bux I cant see how it works????
Anotherone
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Broadband speed

Quote from: cedlor
I have done a diagram but it doesnt help  the bit ............
The master socket essentially now has only one cable in  with multicolouted wire ...........
The RJ2 box with the filter always plugged in  has only one cable  BUT it is Multicoloured
May just be me but unless one of the cables with the self coloured wires is connected somewhere to the cable witht the multicoloured wire to RJ2 bux I cant see how it works????

You are right, the diagram doesn't really help - unlike your composite pic in reply #5 which was quite helpful Wink  - as your diagram is only one of the possibilities, which is why I've asked all the questions, and in the order that I have.
TJBrentor
Grafter
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎08-04-2013

Re: Broadband speed

Thanks both for your responses.  I've attached some more photos and a floor plan.
BT incoming cable:  The only pont where this is visible, inside or outside, is where it pops out of the wall to go into the junction box at A on the plan.  I think this wall may have originally been an external wall, but there is now a small extension which makes this an internal wall.  There are no boxes externally.
Cable with plug nr master socket:  That just connects to the socket marked as C on the floor plan, into which the ringer connects.  Photos attached.  Yes the box I cant get into is the ringer.
Cable with orange, blue, green and brown:  I assume that is the start of the connection to the socket at first floor marked B (to which the router is currently connected) and that there is another connection somewhere which accounts for the change in wire colours.  I can feel it heading upwards before it is properly chased into the wall.
I hope the plan is clear.  Distances - A to C approx 4 metres.  A to B about 3 m.
The most convenient place for the router is where it is now.  My wife and I both work from home so bedroom 3 is one office, and the other is ground floor, bottom right on the plan. I get a 4 bar wireless signal in there at the moment.  
Anotherone
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Re: Broadband speed

Thanks for all that, it gives a very clear picture of the situation. So at present we must assume that there is a joint somewhere in the cable between points A & B but some further checks which I'll mention in another post will be required to be certain.
As already mentioned the Ringer extension should only be plugged in via a filter at the Master socket. If it's plugged into the master socket at present, please unplug it and connect it again via a spare filter. When you've done that, can you check whether if you plug a phone (ideally corded) into the spare socket on that splitter in socket 'C' - do you get dial tone? If so, does the ringer now work on incoming calls? If neither, leave the extension unplugged at the master and don't do anything further with it for now.
The possible joint in the cable between points A & B - is there any clues at all, as to where such a joint might be?
In any event, the cable leaving the GPO box - the one with the orange, blue, green and brown wires is going to need to be replaced if things are connected as we are currently assuming.
Now don't worry about the detail of that, I'll give you the information on what cable is needed, a small tool and etc, it's really a case of running a cable probably up the wall (may be surface, doesn't have to be buried) and through the ceiling etc eventually to socket B (which you might even want to relocate slightly). There may of course be an alternative route for a new cable, only you can assess that. Is this sort of task within your DIY capabilities?
With regard to the BT incoming cable, I'm surprised that there is no evidence of some box somewhere externally, or even on a wall in that small extension. No grey box, or a small white one, or even a round black one somewhere on an external wall, maybe behind a bush?
TJBrentor
Grafter
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎08-04-2013

Re: Broadband speed

Ringer extn - I've tried a phone in there with a filter at the main socket) but it doesnt work.  Socket C is useless for anything other than the ringer as it is behind a door.  I'm happy to leave that unconnected and intend doing away with it altogether once everything else is sorted. 
The only place I can think the joint between sockets A and B can be is under the floorboards at first floor level, and I that could be either side of the wall with the socket in.  I had a look under the carpet yesterday before replying but as there werent any loose boards I thought I'd wait for your response before going further.  Yes, I could run a new cable up to the first floor. 
BT cable - had another good look but cant see anything.  I've spoken with the previous owner who couldnt help but said that a neighbour set up his router etc and may have some idea.  I'll speak with him this evening.
cedlor
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Registered: ‎02-04-2015

Re: Broadband speed

I am surprised the phone doesnt work via in socket C providing the lead plug is plugged into socket A . Wiring in socket C looks ok.  Anyway if it is not going to be used
no point spending time on it.  I  will leave AO to respond on proposed new wiring as he knows what he is doing. I think the small tool he mentions may be something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Network-Ethernet-Cable-Punch-Down-Multi-Tool-IDC-Faceplate-Krone-cutter-RJ...;   It is possible to buy a plastic one for 50p or so that is adequate for putting wires in but if you have to pay postage it may not work out much cheaper, this one also has a small hook tool attached which is used for pulling wires OUT.
Anotherone
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Broadband speed

That tool will do at that price as it's with free postage, I would grab it quick as it seems only a few left.
I wouldn't touch the all plastic ones, they are about as good as a chocolate fireguard, and usually DIY sheds rip you off at about £2 a go, they might do one socket before being u/s.
An alternative would have been this for 99p, and only when ordering the CW1308 Cable, the correct twisted pair (2 pair) cable as used by BT (you don't need 3 pair cable - in fact you are only going to use 1 pair anyway) and also 3.5mm clips all for the total of £1 p&p on top of the price of the goods. One of the best deals I know from a reliable source.  You may decide to use say 15mm square plastic trunking instead of clips or whatever, obviously that is down to you and how you want your decor.
Now before you rush off to order a suitable number of metres of cable, there is one final check you need to do (and a small change at the same time which might give an improvement for now).
First, pull the mains power plug on the modem/router, then after about a minute, unplug it from the line/filter. Ideally, it's best to log into it first and click on the 'Disconnect' button that you'll see under Connection Status on the Home page of the 2704n. That action drops the PPP Internet session (not sync) which is to help avoid a possible stale session. Pulling the power plug gives a 'more graceful' loss of sync and is preferred to just unplugging it from the line which could be seen by DLM as a dropped connection.
Once that is done, then at the GPO connector box (detail b.jpg in reply #3) -
1) Disconnect the Orange+white trace wire from the top left hand terminal, where the Green wire is on the cable that goes up the wall (we believe to the socket upstairs) - you can put the Orange+white trace on the top RH terminal. Those two terminal aren't connected to each other so the wires are now isolated and can't touch any others. This is the bell-wire - not needed in a broadband situation and is an unbalanced wire in that old type cable which is not twisted pair either. This combination will pick up lots of interference with a resultant slow speed. We will leave it like this, as it should give a significant improvement even though we still have cable that is not twisted pair.
2) The more critical part of this test, remove the white wire from the middle terminal on the left (careful not to damage it) this is one leg of the incoming line. Leave it sticking in the air not touching the terminal or any others., and just gently do up the terminal for now. If everything is as we think, if you now go to the upstairs socket and check it with your phone, it should be dead - no dial tone. If that is the case, then reconnect the White wire to the middle terminal on the left, making sure as best you can that the connection is clean and amply tight (don't overtighten).
Check the bottom left hand terminal for cleanliness and it being adequately tight. Checking the socket upstairs again, dial tone should have returned and the line should be crackle free. If there are crackles, check the connections on the middle and bottom LH terminals at the GPO box for cleanliness and tightness again.
3) IF perchance and only if, when the White wire is removed from the middle terminal, the socket upstairs is not dead, then there's some star wiring somewhere - so do the following for now -
Remove the Blue wire from that LH middle terminal (not the Blue+white trace on the RH middle) and reconnect the White wire to the LH middle terminal.
Then, remove the bright Orange wire from the bottom LH terminal, leaving the pale Orange one connected.
So that should be that the cable going up the wall - the one with the orange, blue, green and brown wires is not connected to anything except the green is isolated on the top LH terminal. Once more check that the socket upstairs is not dead. IF it damn well is dead, reconnect the bright orange wire and check again. If it now has dial tone there is something really odd going on with the wiring.
On the assumption that 3) the "IF perchance" isn't so, ie. having done 1) & 2) successfully then go back upstairs and plug the modem/router into the line and then power it up. As soon as it's booted (Power and Broadband lights green and stable + hopefully the Internet one), then log into it using This link for the full xDSL stats (link is also in my sig) and copy and paste them into a post asap. Hopefully we'll see some reasonable figures and we can comment further.
TJBrentor
Grafter
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎08-04-2013

Re: Broadband speed

Thanks for the clear instructions, Anotherone.  Only steps 1 and 2 were necessary.  Here are the new stats:
Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (1 dB): 37.9 31.0
Attenuation (1 dB): 12.5 6.5
Output Power (1 dBm): 16.9 7.0
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 10744 1376

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 1152 288 0 0

K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 37 10 0 0
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 0 0 0 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 0.50 1.00 0.0 0.0
D (interleaver depth): 1 1 0 0
Delay (msec): 0.13 0.25 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0

Super Frames: 0 0 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 0 0 0 0
RS Words: 0 0 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 0 0 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 0 0 0

HEC Errors: 0 0 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total Cells: 362435 0 0 0
Data Cells: 4955 0 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0 0 0

Total ES: 0 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 15 15
Thanks cedlor for the ebay link for the tool.
Now new info from the neighbour on the wiring. 
It's dawned on me overnight that it would be a lot less work for me to plug the router into socket A and leave the phone base unit in socket C. It avoids pulling up floor boards etc.  Any new wiring needed for that?
TJBrentor
Grafter
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎08-04-2013

Re: Broadband speed

Sorry for the typo - that should read No new info from the neighbour
Anotherone
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Re: Broadband speed

Only just seen your post, can you post the current stats, just need to see what the errors have been doing since earlier. The Line is either chronically banded, or incorrectly provisioned (I'm not so sure as it's showing G.dmt for the mode). The line ought to run somewhere approaching 20Mbps.
After you've posted current stats, it might be an idea to try a different filter instead of that one that's next to the socket before asking for a line reset.
Same procedure for gracefully dropping the sync, when powered off, change the filter, give it 5 minutes and power up and post the new stats.