Broadband getting even slower but still above estimate

[#1]

When I took the plusnet fibre out I was quoted as getting a 50.5mb download however when it was installed and for the next 14 days I received 78mb which was great and I never had any problems. However after the first 14 days (which just happens to be the time you are allowed to change your mind and cancel the contract) the speed gradually reduced to where it is now at 62.6mb.
It concerns me that since I complained about the speed reduction in April this year and was given a response of "line management has deemed it too fast by the cabinet" which sounds rediculous, the speed has dropped a further 5mb (67.6mb when I complained in April and is now 62.6mb).
If this is going to carry on then by Christmas I shall be receiving a speed under 40mb which is beyond a joke compared to what I had. I have been fobbed off with excuses such as because I'm still getting over the estimate openreach won't do anything about it.
When we go through the process of taking out broadband with you the estimate is described as "Just an estimate" and "Shouldn't be taken as a guarantee" etc etc but it's quite different when we've taken your service out and you then make the estimate against us.

[#2]

Sorry you're not happy with this, but I'm afraid I don't see a problem? Yes the service is slower than it was when it first started, but it's still faster than you were told it would be. If it gets to the point where it does slow down past the estimate we'd be happy to raise a fault - likewise if it drops by more than 25% of the speed which it settled at after the initial few days.

[#3]

I really do not understand how you cannot comprehend this....let me try a very simple approach....
You buy a car which you are told might go 50 mph but there are no guarantees (it could be higher or lower) and you will have to see what its like for 2 weeks .....you buy the car and after 2 weeks you find it goes 78 miles per hour, you're happy so keep the car. Gradually your top speed decreases and you find that 5 months later you're only able to go 62 miles per hour.
Now are you STILL going to tell me you would be happy with your purchase because I cannot think of anyone that would.
You say 25% less.....I am already at 20.5% difference so I guess give it another couple of weeks and I will have to raise yet another complaint because you cannot be pro-active and try and fix the problem now.

[#4]

Quote from: Matt

Yes the service is slower than it was when it first started, but it's still faster than you were told it would be.

You have told "IT WOULD BE" and "ESTIMATED" it would be confused.

[#5]

My understanding of the situation is that you're not happy with the speed you're getting on your line, because it used to be faster than it is currently. Is that not the case? I'm afraid I can't see any problems beyond that.
Are you saying that if you'd ordered with the expectation that your speeds would be 50.5Mb, and you received a constant 50.5Mb that you wouldn't be happy?
Regardless, I'm afraid as I said above that we can't raise a fault as by our supplier's rules there is no fault - however if it drops more than 25% below the speed it settled at we'll have grounds to raise one and will do so happily.
I'd recommend raising a fault at http://faults.plus.net rather than a complaint as the fault will go directly to our faults team and therefore be addressed more quickly that way.

[#6]

OK I shall explain.
Gradual speed reductions are due to cable cross talk
Cross talk is the effect of other people's FTTC signal in the multi-core cable on your individual line pair within the same cable.
This is much more severe on FTTC than on ADSL due to the much higher frequencies used on FTTC - it was there on ADSL but you didn't notice it.
As a result, as more and more people get connected to your cabinet for FTTC there are more and more FTTC signals in the various line pairs of the multi core cable feeding your and your nearby neighbour houses.
So the cross talk gets worse and worse.
This cross talk actually appears as excess noise on your line
The modem reacts to this noise by having to reducing the sync speed.
Hence the slower download speeds.
So to start with your actual speeds are more than the estimated speed, then as more and more people get connected your speeds will drop to near the estimated initial speed (if the initial estimate was any good!)
Those connected to the cabinet early will see the most slowdown  as no one else is using FTTC on their cable. Those connected much later will see less of a slowdown but will connect at a slower speed to start with as cross-talk is already present from the start.
BT are currently later this year trialling a complex technology called vectoring which it is hoped will cancel out most of the effects of cable cross talk.  I have no idea whether they will implement it or not, or only in special cases and even if implemented will it be free or not.  The technology and the computing power to do this is only just out of the research labs so do not expect it to be rolled out in the next few months whatever happens.

[#7]

Quote from: Matt

My understanding of the situation is that you're not happy with the speed you're getting on your line, because it used to be faster than it is currently. Is that not the case? I'm afraid I can't see any problems beyond that.

Yes that is correct.

Quote from: Matt

Are you saying that if you'd ordered with the expectation that your speeds would be 50.5Mb, and you received a constant 50.5Mb that you wouldn't be happy?

There was no expectation so I'm not sure where you've got that from. You're website clearly says the speed is just an estimate so it could have gone either way. You make it extremely clear on your website that the speed is an estimate and you make no guarantees. Since it ended up at 76mb that is what I agreed to stay signed up to NOT the 62mb I am currently receiving.

Quote from: Matt

Regardless, I'm afraid as I said above that we can't raise a fault as by our supplier's rules there is no fault - however if it drops more than 25% below the speed it settled at we'll have grounds to raise one and will do so happily. I'd recommend raising a fault at http://faults.plus.net rather than a complaint as the fault will go directly to our faults team and therefore be addressed more quickly that way.

As it has reduced by 4% a month (compared to original speed) since I started that should mean that by the end of July I will hit the 25% mark so I guess I will be in touch again then.

[#8]

It's likely that since you had fibre installed other people on the same cabinet have also taken a fibre offering. This increases the cross-talk and can cause slight slowdowns.
The estimate you received at signup is the speed we were informed your line would perform at, it's performing over that now (although I know it's been higher) so we're giving you the estimated speed provided.
It's very possible that the DLM will increase the speed of your line as well as decrease it from time to time, this is what the Dynamic Line Management does when it sees a change in line conditions.

[#9]

That is exactly what has happened to me. I was the first customer on my cabinet back in October & I was receiving a download of 43 Megs, well below the estimate of 49 Megs but fine by me. There has since been a gradual reduction down to 39-40 Megs but my use of the internet hasn't suffered at all. I am over 500 metres from my cabinet.
I think that some users get too anal about speeds, the "mine's bigger than yours'" syndrome! 

[#10]

Well just as I said it would my line speed has carried on dropping and is now well over the 25% drop in settled speed albeit a lot quicker than I guessed it would. Let's hope you actually do something about it.

[#11]

Can someone please chase this up for me. I raised a fault as Matt requested on the 19th and had a response saying tests will take 24 hours and that was 4 days ago now.

[#12]

Hi, really sorry for the delay. I've given our support team a heads up and they'll make sure that gets picked up this afternoon for you.

[#13]

fwiw, when I had fibre installed at end of April, I was second customer on the new cabinet.  Got 76mb down, 17mb up according to speed tests.  This is still way above the 49mb/11mb speed estimates.   The cabinet is 400m away.
Using an unlocked HG612 modem, it reported attainable speeds of 84mb down and 27mb up during the first week of use.  The actual line speed was 79.999mb and 20mb respectively.   The attainable speeds then started to drop gradually from second week onwards.
Three months has now passed, more customers have no doubt been added to the cabinet, but because this is an established Virgin Cable area, I suspect the FTTC take-up may be a lot slower than other areas.  
This week, modem now reports attainable speed of 71mb and 23mb up, and actual line speed of 69mb and 20mb respectively.  This translates to 62mb down and 17mb up in speed tests.
Edit:  I forgot to add that I am not complaining about the gradual drop in speed as the speed test results are still above BT's original estimates. I accept this gradual speed drop is to be expected from cross talk interference from other newly installed VDSL lines. 

[#14]

Unfortunately even if we tried to raise a fault it would get rejected due to the very very gradual nature of the decrease in speed. The guideline to go by from BT Wholesale is 'if the line rate drops by more than 25% over a 14 day continuous period then a fault can be reported'

[#15]

In that case you might want to amend Matt Taylor's post above who has given out incorrect information stating that you will raise a complaint if the speed drops 25% from the settled speed.
My 18 month contract expiry can not come soon enough to move back to VM. What once seemed like great value fibre broadband is now working out alot more expensive recieving the lower speeds I am now achieving.