Billing's lost the plot again

[#1]

March last year I posted on the PUG forums:
[quote=Billing system falling apart - discuss]I've had problems with billing and there are any number of topics on the Community forums where people are having billing problems. Just what is going on?
Problems seen:

• Incorrect calculation of prices after VAT reduction


• Credits being applied to account not actually reducing the next bill


• Direct debit setup problems


• Discounts not correctly given


• Double billing in one month

I can't see any sign that in the last 9 months anything has improved.

[#2]

I think the current economic situation makes it very important that people be billed correctly and have adequate notice of DD so that it could be challenged, and corrected, if required.
I've no doubt that Plusnet would refund an overcharge but if a customer is on benefits £10 could make the difference between going into the red, and incurring charges, or not eating.

[#3]

Problems with the billing system have frequently been raised with Plusnet by PUG - but always the response is "What problems with the Billing system?".
How do we get the problems escalated to a level where a rational review is made of these long running issues and some practical steps taken to getting them resolved.
Recent threads should give sufficient clues to the scale and depth of feeling such problems are causing.
Maurice

[#4]

Quote from: nadger

I've no doubt that Plusnet would refund an overcharge but if a customer is on benefits £10 could make the difference between going into the red, and incurring charges, or not eating.

This is something I was concerned about coming up against last summer, when Plusnet's billing system randomly decided it would steal about £85 from us (that is, me and my mother). The current account used to pay for our ADSL is kept fairly low; we do have money elsewhere but we try to save what we can (we're not very well-off) so the current account is used for, basically, just the essentials. Thankfully on this occasion Plusnet managed to catch the DD before it was taken, so no money left the account after all, but the fact that £85 could disappear so easily at Plusnet's behest did have me worried about the implications you've described (although I'm not at all saying it would've prevented us from eating!).

[#5]

Quote from: Be3G

(although I'm not at all saying it would've prevented us from eating!).

There probably are people where it could be that critical and that's a frightening thought.

[#6]

Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if there're a few people who've been lured by the very cheap Value package for whom losing sums close to £100 (or even over £100 as in Pierre's case) would not be easy to deal with whatsoever.

[#7]

Now...
I've had a response.... 

Quote

Dear Mr X, Thank you for getting back to us. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused with the billing and I have reviewed the thread that you have sent to us. This states that the standard is 10 working days however I can only assume that this is not an obligation. Our legal team would have verified this. We will refund you and you are also entitled to get the over charge back from the bank. Please let us know when you get the refund. If you have any more questions please get in touch 24/7, either by our contact number 0845 1400 200 or through our assistant on our website at http://help.plus.net. Before you call us please check http://csc.plus.net/ as this will tell you the current call waiting times. These statistics are updated every 3 minutes and calls are free from our home phone service.

I think the CSC person has missed the point(s) I was making to be quite frank.
The standard IS 10 working days (As defined by BACS), and it IS a legally binding obligation that PlusNet HAS signed up to when they signed the Direct Debit Originators Agreement and were sponsored by their bank to take Direct Debits.
I'm afraid the CSC's answer is not acceptable, I also notice he's completly glossed over (or missed my point again) about the compensatory payment I expect to receive (Which is the sum of £17.50)
If this matter isn't escalated, and escalated with an acceptable answer (with timescales) to myself by 5pm on Monday 11th January, then my first action on Tuesday morning at 9am will be to report PlusNet to BACS (Who run the DD system), at that point potentially a whole world of pain will break loose - which could include PN losing their authority to take Direct Debit payments!
Attempting to "brush me off" is NOT an option I'm afraid.

[#8]

Quote from: MauriceC

Problems with the billing system have frequently been raised with Plusnet by PUG - but always the response is "What problems with the Billing system?". How do we get the problems escalated to a level where a rational review is made of these long running issues and some practical steps taken to getting them resolved. Recent threads should give sufficient clues to the scale and depth of feeling such problems are causing.

Do they honestly not see the issues with the billing system? Are they blind?
Not only do they have a completely inflexible, unworkable, archaic billing system, they also do not comply with the legal obligations they signed up to which are designed to protect their customers...

Quote from: nadger

I think the current economic situation makes it very important that people be billed correctly and have adequate notice of DD so that it could be challenged, and corrected, if required.

The entire idea (and legal agreements PN has signed) of the Direct Debit scheme is as you have stated above, thats why the DD variable scheme has the protection built in that you have "Advance Notice".
It hasn't stopped me from eating,
However - Whaddya think PN would say if I walked into their office, helped myself to a tenner from the bosses wallet and said "It's ok, you can have it back in 14 days"...... I'm pretty damn sure his answer wouldn't be "Oh yeah, help yourself mate" - I suspect he'd scream and shout, ring the police and have me nicked for theft.
In my eyes, there is NO difference.

[#9]

AIUI, after reading this, PN can state whatever notice period they like, as long as they inform you, when you authorise the DD,  of your direct debit guarantee rights (which include the notice period).  The recommended time is 10 working days, but can be substantially shorter.
That being said, I still believe PN should give greater notice as to an impending direct debit payment, to allow a customer time to query any amounts being taken.
B.

[#10]

Indeed, particularly for a company that has such a habit of getting those direct debit payment amounts wrong.

[#11]

Quote from: Barry

........, PN can state whatever notice period they like, as long as they inform you, when you authorise the DD,  ...... B.

Can anyone give me a link to a copy of the mandate form that PN ask us to complete. I did it once - quite recently but did not keep a copy (stupid yes). It would be interesting to see what notice PN say they  give.
And my view is that taking money that is not owed is theft. Therefore PN are totally entitled to take as much money as I owe them but anything over that is money being stolen. I believe that they should be required to make reparations for any financial damage and then pay a substantial penalty for their dishonesty.
That said - PN's charges to my account have been totally correct so far  but for an honest, above board company to try to dodge the legal niceties seems reprehensible to me.
Jim

[#12]

My daughter (signed up on my recommedation) is having similar problems; see this thread: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,81756.16.html - double billed, returned DDs, etc. The comms team have sorted it pretty efficiently, but she is STILL waiting for the refund of £60 bank charges which was authorised by Mand on 23rd Dec.
The earlier comments about being able to eat really do apply here, I'm very annoyed that I am having to lend her money to fund PN's snail's pace refund routine, when the refund could be handled via BACS within 3 days.
It's a technology company for God's sake - USE the b****y technology!
Alastair (now getting pretty p****d off)

[#13]

Quote from: Be3G

Indeed, particularly for a company that has such a habit of getting those direct debit payment amounts wrong.

Its not only direct debits they get wrong.
Anyone who's been here from the early days will know all about plusnets poor billing, 10 years ago I would have NEVER used direct debit with plusnet....

[#14]

Quote from: EnglishMohican

Can anyone give me a link to a copy of the mandate form that PN ask us to complete. I did it once - quite recently but did not keep a copy (stupid yes). It would be interesting to see what notice PN say they  give.

http://www.plus.net/general/directdebit.html

[#15]

Quote

If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change we will notify you 3 working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed.