Bad value for money

[#1]

Quote from: orbrey

That may have been the case when the email was received (20/6/07) but line conditions may change over time. Unfortunately as you've been advised earlier in this thread the ISP has no control over sync rates at all - the signal is generated at the exchange, travels over the wires to your premises and terminates at your ADSL hardware.

The speed didn't change over time, it dropped from 4.5 almost overnight as I remember. As I type this, it's 1.9.
I've stuck with PN, but from my latest experience, its clear that there is no will / ability to investigate this problem, let alone try to fix it. It's always someone elses fault. And no-one has given me a genuine reason for not going cable. I'm paying £15 per month, for a service that's now less than 2MBPS. I can get that for free elsewhere.

[#2]

Unfortunately, as you have been advised several times over the past few months while this issue has been ongoing, we are unable to raise this as a fault to BT as the line has not shown any faults. The sync speed has dropped, but never below the fault threshold rate of your line and as such BT will not accept a fault even if it is raised.
If we did raise a fault, from experience the following would happen:
BT would find no fault.
We would reject the fault back to BT advising that the issue is still apparent.
BT would find no fault, and advise that if the issue was passed back an engineer visit to your premises would be required.
We would pass the fault back to BT advising that the issue was still apparent.
BT would request an engineer visit. We would book this with you after confirming when you would be available.
The BT engineer would attend, plug his modem into your line and test the sync speed. He would find no fault.
BT would then clear the fault advising that no problems were found, and would pass on a charge of £144 + vat.
Essentially there is nothing we can do about the fact that your line speed is dropping, however if the slow speeds mean that you are using less than 1Gb per month data transfer between the hours of 8am and midnight we would be able to change your package to broadband your way option 1 which would lower your subscription costs to £9.99 per month.

[#3]

Quote from: 430

The speed didn't change over time, it dropped from 4.5 almost overnight as I remember. As I type this, it's 1.9. ... its clear that there is no will / ability to investigate this problem, let alone try to fix it. It's always someone elses fault ...

Indeed, something has physically happened to your phone line, maybe that happened one night.
There is no obligation on BT to provide all phone lines with maximum speeds and nor for them to make repairs in situations like yours when speeds drop after being stable for some long period of time.
Some people here have taken time to answer your query, the person not willing to do anything it YOU, we asked for some information and to try some things. You have not been forthcoming. Goodbye.
SW.

[#4]

It seems, like Godsell4 and others have said, that a fault may well have developed but not to the extent that BT see it as a 'fault' as such given that it is within what they consider the limitations of a  satisfactorily working ADSL connection (within spec). I know you are frustrated, as well we all would be I am sure.
If you could get a 2Mbps free wouldn't you rather do this than pay £15 for 4Mbps though anyway? 
Going to cable though, which would bypass the local loop, would still leave a possibly faulty link between you and the BT exchange and, until fixed, if you were to go back to ADSL with any ISP you may just get the same or worse performance.
Have you considered a 'trial' with another ISP's ADSL service to prove/disprove that the problem is with Plusnet? I haven't looked at what deals are around but if Plusnet offer a trial then others are most likely too also?
HTH 

[#5]

Quote from: geezer

If you could get a 2Mbps free wouldn't you rather do this than pay £15 for 4Mbps though anyway?  Going to cable though, which would bypass the local loop, would still leave a possibly faulty link between you and the BT exchange and, until fixed, if you were to go back to ADSL with any ISP you may just get the same or worse performance.

TBH I was happy to pay £15 for 4.5, because of the apparently good reputation that PN had. Ever since they were taken over, things have gone downhill. This is reflected in the Which? rating. PN are not longer a best buy, and are now rated at 33%. This compares to the best buys of Waitrose and Zen at 70+%.
Draw your own conclusions.
PN are effectively forcing me to go elsewhere - probably cable - because there is obviously a problem somewhere which no-one wants to take responsibility for.

[#6]

The only problem I can see with the service is a perception one.
In brutal honesty, we have performed a lot of investigation into your fault which should not have taken place. Even more honestly, this is a problem with the way we process faults.
I can only apologise that is has taken so long to bring such a response to you, as the information provided here is clearly something that should have been said way sooner.
There is information which is available to our faults agents, which has not been taken into account or provided in responses to you.
I can't doubt the changes in how we are perceived in customer satisfaction surveys across the net. Though I will admit I do not spent my time looking at them, as my focus within the CSC is on the faults process, both fault investigation and the supplier management phases.
Your specific case has highlighted issues which I have already taken on board and will be looked at in the faults process. Undoubtedly, your own case has done us a favour.
What I can be certain of is that our faults processes now are no different to those prior to the purchase of PlusNet by BT.
If anything, there is a strong tendency by our teams to investigate faults more than they should. Either by missing out some part which may prove no fault exists, or even attempting to investigate something when the customer may not have hinted at a fault.
But they, you will always find red-herrings every now and again.
There is a big difference between a fault an perception.
With one, somebody may or many not be clear on what they are seeing and it doesn't matter if they are.
With the other, it requires that education takes place. You may find a fault along the way, but if that occurs will depend on participation and the willingness to listen on both parties part.

[#7]

Quote

One thing I do notice is that your connection is only online 19% of the time. Whilst not unexpected, I do suspect that you may be powering your equipment up and down too much, causing variances on the line which forces the product ot adapt.

Quote

Local      remote Attenuation db      41.5      28 Snr margin      18.5      10

I have read through this post with interest. As P Richardson has said, you are only connected approx 19% of the time, which may lead us to beleive that you switch your router/modem off alot, and BT being the way they are, may see this as line instability. This may be confirmed that whilst your attenuation is 41dB your SNR is very high at 18dB, for that line attenuation. For comparison, my attn is 41dB, and with a SNR of 6dB ( Max default), I get a sync of 6096, and a throughput of 5Mb. I am connected directly into the master socket, via a filtered faceplate. May have missed this, but are you using a router or modem. Routers are better for Max, and can be quite safely left on most of the time. If you have a router, not sure if this is possible, but you could ask either for a reduction in SNR, or ask Plus if your line can be retrained. As godsell has mentioned, you need to be as helpful as possible, I am sure this can be resolved, as your line should be capable of speeds such as mine, particularly if your exchange is green. If Plus cannot reduce your target SNR, then  you must leave your router on for at least 14days, at a constant sync for it to come down. I realise this is a royal pain in the proverbial, but its how Max is, and we all have to put up with it, no matter now annoying it is. This would be the same with any other ISP.  Hope this helps.
BTW, if you remain at this sync for 3 days, your profile should raise to 3000, and so throughout would be around 2500-2700, depending upon overhead, and contention. Have you looked  at Kitz site, on how Max works www.kitz.co.uk?

[#8]

Quote from: pierre_pierre

I have just been speaking to 150 for 30 mins, the first advisor said whats your account number, then knew nothing about master sockets, because my wife has a triple pacemaker fitted and sufers from heart failure, and I have a replacemment hip and blue badge, I thought that I might be entitled to a free socket, never did get the answer in 30 mins.

Yes it should be free BT terms and condition below
Per line - where there is someone in the household who is disabled as defined by the Disability Discrimination Act i.e. someone with a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on their ability to carry out normal day to day activities
puddy

[#9]

Penfold:
I'm afraid that SNR and attenuation are over my head, but I'll look at the Kitz site again, thanks.
I use a Voyager 105 modem. I've got a Netgear router, but after several hours of trying to install it, gave up, so its been in the box for a few months. Anyway, using that now would not be comparing apples with apples!
I would say that on a weekday, I boot up the laptop once a day, although it may go into sleep mode and require another start. Weekends probably gets started 6 times for the same reason.
As I mentioned earlier, I have been told on numerous occasions by PN support to keep re-booting. Now they are saying its a bad thing - hence my confusion.

[#10]

Quote from: P

What I can be certain of is that our faults processes now are no different to those prior to the purchase of PlusNet by BT

I hoped they would have improved!
I fixed my problem by calling 150 and their had been a fault on the line dating back 4 months they fixed it in 30 seconds I now get the full 8mg at times
Could somebody at Plusnet call BT to check thier are no voice faults on the line as part of the investgations in low speed problems. It could save money and staffing I know it wont help on all occasions just a thought!
puddy

[#11]

Thanks Puddy, its nice to know some people read old messages in posts.

[#12]

Quote from: 430

As I mentioned earlier, I have been told on numerous occasions by PN support to keep re-booting. Now they are saying its a bad thing - hence my confusion.

Routers should be kept on all the time.
mines on 24/7.  
Your making the problem worse keep switching on and off all the time. so leave it on
puddy

[#13]

Quote from: P

lots of PN stuff

If I've understood this correctly then, despite the fact that my speed has dropped from a constant 4.5, to 1.9 at times now, there is actually no fault in BT/PN eyes. The fault is in my imagination, and I only "perceive" that there is a fault, which in reality is a "red-herring"  Consequently, I need to be "re-educated".
That's all right then.

[#14]

Quote from: puddy

Quote from: 430 As I mentioned earlier, I have been told on numerous occasions by PN support to keep re-booting. Now they are saying its a bad thing - hence my confusion. Routers should be kept on all the time. mines on 24/7.   Your making the problem worse keep switching on and off all the time. so leave it on puddy

I use a modem at the moment - couldn't get the router to work - see post above.

[#15]

what router do you have 430?  If its a DG834, then all you need to do, is plug it in, connect to the PC via an RJ45 network cable. Type 192.168.0.1 ( think this is it), into a browser address bar. The login page should appear, defaults are usually administrator, and password either password or blank. Then all you need to do, is enter the plusnet login details into the appropriate screens, usually <username>@plusdsl.net, and your account password. make sure you are using PPPoA. This shluld then allow the router to connect to the internet. If this works, then leave it on. If the above does not work, ive probably got it a bit wrong, been a while since I used a netgear router. If I have I am sure someone else will help.  When plus ask you to reboot, most of the time you just need to disconnect the connection to plus, not reboot the whole router, but you cant do this with a modem, and in reality modems are not the best for MAX dsl.  Hope this helps.