Authenticated SMTP - still allowed?

[#1]

Is authenticated SMTP still allowed? I'm assuming it is otherwise I would have seen the howls of protest.
If it is, then I must be doing something wrong. I've often used it in the past while travelling. New laptop this time, but same Thunderbird profile.
Ticked 'Use name & password@ under 'Security & Authentication' & entered my Plusnet username.
Use secure connection is set to 'No'.
That should be asking me for my password when I send, unless it has it already. I'm getting error 10060 when I send, but not being asked for a password.
The only passwords that appear to be stored are the pop3 ones.
Any ideas?

[#2]

SMTP is still allowed but only on subscription accounst. You're not using the login credentials from a non-subscription account are you?

[#3]

No, Monthly business account. Always worked before, so I'm doing something wrong. New laptop, so must be setting something wrong.

[#4]

I'm inclined to agree if it's the account associated with yoru Community Site login. I've just tested it and it seems to be working OK:

220 relay.plus.net ESMTP Exim Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:58:19 +0100
ehlo relays
250-pih-relay04.plus.net Hello relays [84.92.0.48]
250-SIZE 104857600
250-PIPELINING
250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN
250 HELP
auth login
334 VXNlcm5hbWU6
********************
334 UGFzc3dvcmQ6
************
235 Authentication succeeded

Are you using your default username (i.e. *not* the username for one of your mailboxes)?

[#5]

Sorry for the somewhat belated reply.
a) I ran out of time
b) then I went home again, so was connected via a plusnet account
c) I got busy catching up on all the things I hadn't done while I was away, including all the things I delayed because of difficulties sending emails!
I really must get to the bottom of this - I don't fancy being relegated to webmail whenever I'm away from home!
So a bit more detail.
1. The connection I'm trying to use is 3 mobile broadband. In all other aspects, it works fine when in a suitable reception area.
2. I didn't mention it in my original post, but the port is set to 25. I have seen suggestions that port 587 should be used for authenticated email but this fails to connect to the server at all, so I have dismissed this as an idea. I believe it is only appropriate when sending secure email, which is a whole new ball game & one that plusnet doesn't support anyway (yet).
3. I get the same error message (connect error 10060) whether or not I tick 'Use name and password' and enter my username. In addition, I don't ever get asked for my password. I'm not being asked for a password even when telling Thunderbird to send it when I am connected via a plusnet ADSL account, although in this instance, the emails do get sent. This suggests that the server is never getting to the stage of checking my credentials, but is failing at an earlier stage. I'm wondering if Thunderbird is even attempting to authenticate.
4. I'm using Thunderbird version 2.0.0.22. Is anyone else using this version successfully to send via relay.plus.net when connected via a non-plusnet IP address?
N.B. Bob - yes, it's the default username. I don't really use plusnet for incoming email much, so I don't have any mailboxes set up.
Anyone got any ideas?
Simon

[#6]

Quote

The connection I'm trying to use is 3 mobile broadband.

Aha!, that's the crunch, 3 block SMTP ( port 25 ) access to anything other than their own servers.
You need to use smtp-mbb.three.co.uk as the outgoing smtp server.

[#7]

Thanks for that - that server address certainly seems to be a closely guarded secret as far as mobile broadband users are concerned. At first, I couldn't find any mention of an outgoing email service on the My3 site. Armed with that information, I went back for another look & have now tracked it down in their troubleshooting section. They give two different versions of the server address, both of which are probably wrong!
The first reference is to 'smtp - mmb.three.co.uk' (note the spaces), which is clearly wrong. The individual email client guides refer to 'smtp.three.co.uk', which is at least a valid hostname. Actually, smtp.mmb.three.co.uk & smtp.three.co.uk both resolve to the same IP address.
I've tried it, but get the same 10060 error, which is really strange. Their troubleshooter says that authentication is not required, which is what you would expect as I'm connecting over their network.
Actually I'm doubtful that three do block port 25 access to 'outside' destinations because a) it has always worked it the past & b) the only references to sending email on their main website refers to sending it via other providers. Only when that fails & you go to the troubleshooter do you get pointed to their own server as above.
I think my next steps are:
1) revert to the plusnet server without authentication, connect the netbook to my plusnet connection & check that I can send mail. The problem might be more fundamental.
2) once I know the basics are working, raise a ticket to three's support system now that I know I should be able to send via their server. I wonder how their support compares to Plusnet!!
In the meantime, any other suggestions are welcome.

[#8]

I have a 3 mobile BB dongle and they *definitely* block port 25. 
I use 1&1 for e-mail and have to set the port to 587 to be able to send via 1and1's authenticated SMTP server. As far as I am aware PN don't have an alternative port (unless it's just not advertised) and you need to use port 25 - meaning that you need to use 3's SMTP server to send mail.
Unfortunately I haven't tried using 3's server as I just route any outgoing mail from my PN account via 1and1's server on port 587.

[#9]

Isn't the difference between the two 3 servers that one allows any from address and the other only allows send emails "from" a 3 email address?

[#10]

Oops - typo.
mmb - should be mbb
My fault.
So - original problem still not solved - I can't send authenticated mail via the plusnet server from a non-plusnet connection.
I can now work round this by using three's server to send.
It's not as convenient - it would be easier to have the server set to be plusnet all the time, so I didn't have to keep swapping it.
If three were blocking port 25 to anything other than their servers, would I be getting the error 10060 from the plusnet server? Or would I just not be able to connect to it at all?
If they are blocking it, it's a change in policy, because I have send mail via three & the plusnet server in the past. To me, this still looks as if Thunderbird is not trying to send the authentication request when asked, so I'm still keen to know if anyone else has this working with Thunderbird. I think my copy has been updated since I last had it working, but the release notes for the version after mine don't mention a fix or an ongoing issue. I can't believe that a problem like this wouldn't be picked up pretty quickly if it existed.
Maybe my next step is to wait until I can connect over a free Wi-Fi connection somewhere & try authentication again. There is a point upgrade to Thunderbird that I ought to install on this PC as well - my main PC has it already.
As always, further thoughts are welcome.

[#11]

Quote

So - original problem still not solved - I can't send authenticated mail via the plusnet server from a non-plusnet connection.

I can confirm that it definitely works, well it did back in March and I assume it still does.
Let me explain, I usually spend a month in Portugal during the winter and use a TMN mobile braodband connection. I have no trouble using authenticated SMTP to relay.plus.net on that network. I also have a '3' mobile broadband dongle for use in the UK and can confirm, as Paul03 says, that it doesnt work on the '3' network.
As Jelv says, smtp.three.co.uk, is designed for use with a '3' email address and as I understand it will replace any info in the 'from' header with your '3' email address, smtp-mbb.three.co.uk doesnt do this.
PS I've just tried authenticated smtp to relay.plus.net from my office wifi ( on Demon ADSL ) and I can confirm it works fine.

[#12]

Quote from: MisterW

I can confirm that it definitely works, well it did back in March and I assume it still does.

It worked for me back in March too!

Quote

I also have a '3' mobile broadband dongle for use in the UK and can confirm, as Paul03 says, that it doesnt work on the '3' network.

Sounds like they've tightened up their systems then.

Quote

As Jelv says, smtp.three.co.uk, is designed for use with a '3' email address and as I understand it will replace any info in the 'from' header with your '3' email address, smtp-mbb.three.co.uk doesnt do this.

...& I don't even have a '3' email address. I only tried smtp.three.co.uk because a) I couldn't get smtp-mbb.three.co.uk to work (not surprising given the typo!) & b) it resolved to the same IP address & 3) 3's email client setup instructions showed it as correct. I suspect that they had used the same screen dump for the mobile instructions as for the rest - although I'm not sure who the 'rest' are. Maybe you use smtp.three.co.uk for sending emails direct from a 3 mobile phone, which I don't have.  Having said that, the instructions were for Outlook Express - surely that must be mobile users only?

Quote

PS I've just tried authenticated smtp to relay.plus.net from my office wifi ( on Demon ADSL ) and I can confirm it works fine.

Thanks for that. I'll try it when I'm next on a connection that's neither plusnet nor three & see if it works then. If not, it will tend to confirm my original suspicion - that I have a problem at my end somewhere.

[#13]

From 3's support pages:

Quote

To protect you and our network, we restrict access to port 25 on our Mobile Broadband network. If you use email software such as Outlook or Vista Mail and your email provider uses Port 25 for outgoing mail, you will need to change your port or SMTP server when connected to our broadband network. Errors you might see when trying to send email over Port 25 on our network include: SMTP 554 Transact Failed - Transaction failed; Port 25 error; The connection to the server has failed- Error Number: 0x800CCC0E; or the sending of email will time out. If you have one of these error messages the best option is to change the outgoing email port from 25 to 587. It is possible that your email provider does not support port 587 - in which case you should try port 465 as an alternative.

I can't post a link but you can find the relevant info by going here and typing "SMTP" into the search box after dropping down "advanced" and selecting "select all".

[#14]

3's support pages are confusing - you get different answers to the same question depending on where you start.
Neither the page you refer to nor the one I first found make any reference to using their own smtp server. The one I found mentions trying port 587, but only the one you reference also mentions port 465. Academic anyway, as Plusnet only accept connections on port 25, as far as I can tell.
After the tip-off from MisterW, I did find a help page that referred to their own server & as reported above, have now got that working, even if I still can't send via the Plusnet server.

[#15]

I think you'll never get to send through the Plusnet server on 3... I spent about 3 hrs trying to fix this for my mate and his dad - sending mail through clara.net suddenly stopped working on the 3 dongle.
Although 3 support told me at the time that 'the internet has decided to change the SMTP port to 587' not that they'd decided to block Port 25 access.
I suppose it owuld be nice if Plusnet's SMTP servers could listen on the other port(s) too though; and supported TLS so that Gmail works.