Are Plusnet supplying me with an acceptable 'service'

[#1]

Hi All,
Have joined to get the community's opinion on my issue with Plunet outlined below.
I have had problems with my connection since July and Plusnet are still unable to rectify it. They blame BT, but the engineers tell me my end is fine when they are here and they have actually given me one master socket direct to where my router connects and I was given a new pair of wires to the exchange. I live in a new (< 1 year old) development and neighbours I have spoke with have good connections, albeit with other providers.
My internet experience is thourougly miserable and I would really like to just try my 'luck' elsewhere. However, Plusnet are holding me to ransom and want serious money (that I don't have or I would pay it to go - believe me) to issue my MAC code.
The latest installment is that they want to shunt me to a fixed 512, or 1meg connection as my line won't take anything else. So great, I pay £21 per month for premier option 1 and I'm probably going to get 512k connection. Mind you that might be better than being unable to play games, look at photos and video, or even at time just browse forums 
Here is my latest results and it has done this before i.e. been totally rubbish got better for a bit then just turns rubbish in the space of 30 minutes:
Date  Speed Achieved (kbps)
02-12-2007 07:06:53 128.8
25-11-2007 22:08:10 922.6
22-11-2007 19:12:05 462.6
09-11-2007 20:31:23 467.5
03-11-2007 22:50:29 119.3
02-11-2007 09:34:24 43.8
02-11-2007 09:30:00 130.5
02-11-2007 08:59:26 130.5
02-11-2007 08:58:20 115.3
02-11-2007 05:54:51 125.7
31-10-2007 16:54:49 453.4
30-10-2007 17:26:31 118.6
29-10-2007 18:19:03 111
29-10-2007 17:07:31 130.4
28-10-2007 19:32:15 130.1
28-10-2007 19:26:48 130.4
28-10-2007 19:24:59 128.9
28-10-2007 19:20:17 127.6
28-10-2007 19:15:33 126.5
27-10-2007 19:40:34 130
More below.....

[#2]

Here is the first then some of the last comments from the ticket the full ticket (rather lengthy) can be read here: <link removed>
You can see this started in July and goes on and on and on....
Your original Question  4:37am, Thursday 26th July 2007
Broadband Fault Checker - Initial checks [ Completed ]
All initial checks have been completed without finding any problems. You now need to visit the Broadband Faults Checker and complete a number of detailed checks to progress your fault further. Please make sure you do this within the next 48 hours, otherwise your Question will close and your fault won't be checked anymore.
Your comment 5:00am, Thursday 26th July 2007
Broadband Fault Checker - Detailed checks [ Completed ]
All questions have been completed by the user.......
as time goes by!
Your comment  9:42am, Friday 2nd November 2007
The third BT Engineer has just left confirming as the other two previously did that there is no proplem internally or with the physical wiring.
He managed to connect keep sync and get a dowload speed of ~1.4 mbps. He did however get a an error code 734 to the providers (you) equipment from my property and the exchange.
"A PPP link control protocol conversation started, but terminated at the request of the remote computer. An error probably occurred on the server."
I'm currently getting 43.8 kbps on the speedtest - asolutley usless with todays internet.
As previously stated I would now like a definitive date of when I can expect a return to normal service or I expect my MAC code to be issued as soon as possible at no expense to myself.
link:CSA Removed 11:28am, Saturday 3rd November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
The information provided by the engineer has been mis-represented to you and I am very concerned about this. I am currently on a call to BT to find out why this is the case.
The engineer notes do indeed confirm the findings about the errors returned, however the error code in question do not relate in any way to PlusNet owned equipment.
When engineers attend, to ensure they are able to prove connectivity and establish that the BT network is not at fault, they only ever user a username related to themselves.
If this login fails as it has done in this case, this actually proves a fault under BTs control and the engineer should be reporting this to his control for repair.
The fact this login fails actually means the engineer proved the fault and with the information provided to yourself, means he either didn't understand the functions of his job correctly or was unwilling to assist and try and get away from this job as soon as possible.
We will try and provide further details as they become available as we are far from satisfied with the reaction to the fault after this engineers attendance.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed

Dear Mr Barber,
Having spoken to BT, they have attempted to blame your own equipment as being the source of this problem. The error code the engineer received could indeed in some cases be this.
We are however adamant this is not the case. This is quite easily explained as false information by the fact the engineer saw this same code from the exchange (this would not be possible unless he took your modem and tested your modem at the exchange).
Unfortunatly, there is not much I can directly do at this moment in time as we want BT to speak to the engineer tasked to your property and find out what occurred on what equipment and where. Whilst we have no reason to doubt what you have said, we need to ensure BT are aware of the facts from their side before progressing further escalation.
We have been informed the engineer will be available on Monday to be able to liaise with him and work out why this was not progressed.
++internal++
Engineer tested faulty from customer property and exchange and has noted this in his clear notes. This has not progressed and needs further checks./
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
Your comment 1:32pm, Saturday 3rd November 2007
Like you state it cannot be my equipment as he did not test using mine, but only his own and getting fault from the exchange!
Either way it does nothing to improve things for me and I still want a definitive timeframe for an acceptble service or would like my MAC code issued?
link:CSA Removed 12:59pm, Monday 5th November 2007
[internal]
Upstream Link Info
Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell Count Speed
32.5 21 0 0 270 448
Downstream Link Info
Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
57 12 322 0 504 736
line rate still 135k, OSC still shows no issues.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed

link:CSA Removed 1:20pm, Monday 5th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
I have now passed this fault back to BTWholesale for further investigation. Looking over the past sync events your line has synced at anywhere from 135k to 1.5mb in the past two weeks. As this is very variable then the fault is still evident.
I will raise a new ticket to provide you with a MAC key, however we will continue to chase this fault with BT. Once generated the MAC key will remain active for 30 days. As the fault is not ISP related it is likely the fault will continue with a new ISP. You do not need to use the MAC key however if you do it will transfer your circuit to the new ISP and they will need to raise a brand new fault as this case will not be transferred.
The MAC should be generated to Ticket: 23286980
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
[internal]
placing on hold pending update.
The next action on your Help Assistant Question is due on Tuesday 6th November at 9:00am. This Question will remain open with the BOT - DSL Logged Faults - Escala until this time.Additional information is provided below:
Regards,
link:CSA Removed

The Question 22443209 has been released from hold and sent back to BOT - DSL Logged Faults - Escala
I understand that the problem may go with me if I switch providers, however you must understand my frustration at an unusable internet service? Also the fact I'm paying over £20 per month for this 'service' and it has been over 3 months now and I cannot be giver a timeframe for any resolution therfore I'm tempted to try elsewhere.
Shame really because until this my serive from Plusnet had been great and I actually reccomended you to family and friends!
link:CSA Removed 11:21am, Tuesday 6th November 2007
[internal]
Upstream Link Info
Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin Errored Seconds HecErrors Cell Count Speed
32.5 21 0 0 1640 448
Downstream Link Info
Loop Loss Loop Loss Add Text SNR Margin ErroredSeconds HecErrors CellCount Speed
57 18 24 0 2221 480
Fault Threshold Rate Maximum Stable Rate Reset Bras Profile Name Sync Rate
576 Y adsl135 160
576 Y adsl135 160
576 Y adsl135 160
576 Y adsl135 160
576 Y adsl135 1728
576 Y adsl1000 1728
OSC shows no issues
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
link:CSA Removed 11:35am, Tuesday 6th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
We fully belive the fault you are experiencing is due to the intermittent drops in service. These drops are in turn causing the line rate to also drop low as the line stabilisation software believes the line can not support the higher speeds.
The amount of loop loss on your line is relatively high at 57db however this should be enough for 1mb fixed rate service.
We can place an order to BT to chagne the service to fixed rate 1mb for next working day and give this a try on your line as this may give you a stable line at a higher rate than the 135k you currently have with maxDSL adaptive service.
Please let us know if you would like to try moving back to fixed rate IPstream.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed

Your comment 5:21pm, Tuesday 6th November 2007
Hi,
Would that be it though - would I be on a 1m connection permenantly?
link:CSA Removed 7:23am, Wednesday 7th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
Our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a line rate up to 512Kbps on a fixed IPStream.
Please advise us how you wish to proceed.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
Your comment 8:42am, Wednesday 7th November 2007
Hi,
I would find this unnacceptable. I had better speeds previously and nothing my end changed the service just gradualy deterioriated to what it is now and I have been put on new lines and each engineer has told me I should be able to achieve at least 6 times this - frankly I'm lost as to what and who to believe now?
A 512 kbits service would be a massive step back for me and as previously stated I would rather try my 'luck' elsewhere!
link:CSA Removed - DSL Logged Faults 2:17pm, Wednesday 7th November 2007
[Internal]
Please submit regrade to 1 meg to see if the line can sustain this speed going forward.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
link:CSA Removed 3:24pm, Wednesday 7th November 2007
[INTERNAL] Assigned to correct ticket pool.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed

link:CSA Removed 4:04pm, Wednesday 7th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
**Internal**
reassigning back to me. I will action this shortly after speaking to link:CSA Removed who is unavailable at the moment.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed

link:CSA Removed 5:00pm, Wednesday 7th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
As we are unable to action this via BT's ordering system we have e-mailed them a customer requirement form for this to be acitoned. Please bear with us as they may take several days to action this for us.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
link:CSA Removed 4:28pm, Friday 9th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
I have checked BT's records and we are still awaiting order placement for the regrade to 1mb,
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
Your comment 5:17pm, Friday 9th November 2007
I never said I wanted 1mb (or will it be 512 like the other message said?). I would find this unnaceptable - it is not what I joined Plusnet for?
link:CSA Removed 9:10am, Monday 12th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
Unfortunately it looks like your line can only support a 1mb service which is why you are having the problems you are on the max DSL up to 8mb service. We are only doing this to ensure BT do not cease the service as max would be unsustainable.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
Your comment 6:22pm, Monday 12th November 2007
So the max I could hope for is 1mb?
If so and there is no other resolution on a very near horizon then please issue my MAC code?
link:CSA Removed 5:30pm, Tuesday 13th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
Yes as explained it looks like we will need to move you onto a 1mb connection in order to provide a stable service. Please note your mac key has already been issued on ticket 23296466. If you do move to another ISP with this issue unresolved you would still be subject to the same problems.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
Your comment 6:08pm, Tuesday 13th November 2007
Hi,
So you are telling me that I cannot get the service I used to have and I have to go onto a 1mb connection or if I want to try my luck elsewhere I will be charged £309 for the privelage?
Your comment 4:47pm, Wednesday 14th November 2007
Please advise:
Are you telling me I have to pay to get out of a contract for a product you cannot supply?
link:CSA Removed 10:18am, Friday 16th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
We are currently supplying you with a service, please be aware as previously stated that it looks very much like the length and quality of your line means that 1mb is possibly the maximum speed you can receive as such this would be the same with any ISP.
Also we are still awaiting our suppliers BT wholesale to action the regrade to 1mb.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
Your comment 4:57pm, Friday 16th November 2007
You are currently supplying me with a very poor service.
I never used to have a problem with my connection and it is up to you to fix it which you cannot seem to do and are trying to fob me off with a 1mb connection.
I never signed up for a 1mb connection, I never asked you to switch me to one either and I'm not prepared to pay £21 a month for one either.
Who can I call to speak with this about please, and I would like to speak with a manger within customer services or accounts?
link:CSA Removed 6:18pm, Wednesday 28th November 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
Apologies for the lack of update as BT have failed to deal with our request in a timely manner to confim yes you never signed up for 1mb specifically but you do not pay for the speed of the connection. Most people can receive an up to 8mb service however in some cases like with yourself the line can only support a maximum of 512kbps or 1mb. Can you confirm if you wish us to go ahead with the regrade to 1mb if not your connection problems will most likely continue.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
Your comment 9:13pm, Friday 30th November 2007
Hi,
So are you telling me you cannot supply the product that I want and you want, no sorry have to put me on another product to gain an acceptable level of service?
link:CSA Removed
2:26am, Saturday 1st December 2007
Dear Mr Barber,
Due to either the length or quality of your telephone line it isn't possible to provide you with an Up To 8mb connection using the IP Stream Max technology that BT have been using for some time now. However, it is possible for us to provide you with a fixed 512k or 1Mb service in order to resolve the connection problems that you have previously been experiencing. As previously stated this is down to a physical issue with your telephone line and there is very little that can be done to change this.
Regards,
link:CSA Removed
Your comment 7:05am, Sunday 2nd December 2007
Hi,
Do you have a number for a dept in BT I can call to discuss this as I have been tld by the previous BT Engineers that the idtance is definately no the problem and that my line has checked fine (even got a new one). I have also asked a couple of neighbours and they have good broadband connectivity/service.
However, I don't really care who is to blame but I cannot get the service I want. I purchase that service from plusnet so it up to plusnet to provide it. Also I don't care about plusnet saying I don't purchase the speed of the service, but would plusnet not agree that the speed is not the problem, but that I have at times a totally unusable internet connection as I cannot view photos or video content without serious time lag, cannot play or download updates to my online games or even at time I cannot even just browse the net.
I pay for broadband premier option one at £21 per month - does supplying me with a fixed 512, or 1meg connection fall within the terms of this service or have you worded it in such a a fashion that I can still get the equivalent of dial-up and just have to suffer it?
I really would just like to try my chances elsewhere and feel that plusnet is holding me to ransom.
Moderators Note by Roger (rogerloxton) all CSC/CSA Names removed as per the Forum Rules
Further Moderators note: Link removed to external document as this contained personal information.

[#3]

Out of interested what results do you get using http://www.speedtester.bt.com/.
I recently had a problem with my connection dropping and the engineer could not find any faults. He decided to replace the master socket and move it nearer to the computer, then he replaced a section of line. Although there was no fault, the fault disappeared after this!
You mentioned that you have been having problems from July. Were you with Plusnet prior to this and what speeds were you getting?
With regard to Fixed Speed on Premier 1, Premier one was created for fixed line speeds and Max came later.

[#4]

Been with plusnet since mid 2003 and moved twice with them to new homes and since I moved in last December my service was fine until July of this year?

There is definately no problems with internal wiring - I checked it (used to be telcom engineer in RAF many moons ago) then three  engineers have and the 2nd one pushed the bell tone straight through to one (took away all others from loop of house) master socket that I now connect to. I have tried different microfilters, cables and modems so the problem is definately not internal.
The BT test:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  160 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 112 kbps
If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.
If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.
Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

[#5]

If memory serves the BT threshold for acceptable service is 400Kbs. If you had acceptable service prior to July I will guess that BT as made changes either at your local junction box or at the exchange that as compromised your line. From my own experience when I moved into this property, BT are known to bodge together wiring at either of these locations to get a telephone service for the customer.
The only way you can contact BT direct regarding this is if you are experiencing telephone connection issues. If you are is may be worth pushing this side first.

[#6]

looking at the various results I think that your attenuation is shown as 57dBA (perhaps you can confirm your attenuation/noise margin/synch speed from your router) which should give a connection speed significantly better than you are getting. However it is a very long line and will be susceptible to external noise.
If you are getting these results connected to the port behind the master socket, hence removing all internal wiring from the result, then there is probably a source of interference somewhere between you and the exchange or within the exchange and BT Openreach need to sort it out.
I hope that one of the reps on here will pick this up and push for a resolution with BT.

[#7]

Apologies for what might appear to be heavy moderation in one of the posts here, however, the OP decided to post all information including the CSC Agents' names, which is against the link:rules
The only reason why I have not moved this entire thread or edited the posts further is so that everyone concerned can have a clear picture of what the issue is about.
Roger.

[#8]

You did have fun Roger 

[#9]

You know... if it weren't for those pesky customers... 

[#10]

Quote from: s29feb

I have had problems with my connection since July and Plusnet are still unable to rectify it. They blame BT, but the engineers tell me my end is fine when they are here and they have actually given me one master socket direct to where my router connects and I was given a new pair of wires to the exchange.

BT won't give you new wires etc free of charge in anything like normal circumstances (or even abnormal circumstances).
They certainly would never, ever give you a new pair of wires to the exchange!
BTW is your phone line noisy on voice calls?
Dial 17020 and it will tell you your phone number - then take option 2 for a silence test.

[#11]

I understand the moderation.
I got the new wires etc. because the engineer was also ex-military and did me a favor 
So most people think it is okay for me to have the equivalent of dual ISDN, but don't actually state why?
Is this just a Plusnet fanboy site?
All engineers said that with distance I am from the exhange mid 3's should be acceptable?
Following a router (Netgear DG834GT) reboot after BT speedtest this morning.
System Up Time 03:56:54
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 6715 9013 0 91 548 03:56:24
LAN 10M/100M 9642 7149 0 573 106 03:56:53
WLAN 11M/54M/108M 508 0 0 7 0 03:56:51
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1248 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 57.0 db 31.5 db
Noise Margin 20.1 db 18.0 db

[#12]

Oh and quiet line test is 17070 and it is as quiet as quiet can be no pops cracks or whistles 

[#13]

I don't understand your comment about fanboy. Where has anyone said that it is acceptable in this thread. We are trying to understand the problem and give advice.
The odd thing about those figures is the 20dBA noise margin.
Is that the figure immediately after reboot as I have never heard of a 20dBA default noise margin before - I thought the maximum was 15dB.
The fact that you have a sync rate of 1248kbps with that noise margin indicates that you should be able to do better but if you are losing sync at some point from that start there is likely to be a severe problem with intermittent interference.
If you can use this program to monitor your noise margin it will help the diagnostics http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm as it will show when the noise margin starts to degrade and when it goes really bad.

[#14]

Quote from: Oldjim

I don't understand your comment about fanboy. Where has anyone said that it is acceptable in this thread. Poll results  Downlaoding now at ~16kbits/sec taking two mins for 1.9mbyts

[#15]

[quote="s29feb"]However, I don't really care who is to blame but I cannot get the service I want. I purchase that service from plusnet so it up to plusnet to provide it.
Exactly what service do you want?
[quote="s29feb"]Is this just a Plusnet fanboy site?
That really depends on our definition of a fanboy. I choose to use Plusnet as my ISP and they provide the service I pay for therefore I have no intention of moving. In which case I must be a fanboy.
With specific regard to your question, I voted yes because from what I have read in your posts Plusnet are trying there best to resolve this for you. Unfortunately like ISPs that rely on BT they are in the hands of BT when it comes to lines, exchanges, etc.