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ADSL2+ DLM logic

Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎01-08-2007

ADSL2+ DLM logic

After my previously mentioned issues, I have been having excellent stability, and the only real sync losses have been when Plusnet do any intrusive testing of the line...
Anyhow, a few days after the issues stopped, the DLM decided in it infinite wisdom, to drop my Target margin from 9dB to 3dB,  whyHuh  God only knows, anyhow, this actually didnt affect stability too much, so not too bothered, and although this was also noted on the ticket by the CSC agents, they thought the same, and we left it alone.  Now when I checked the line stats yesterday (Yes I am still obsessing, and checking them every day, I am sure i will stop soon), I have noted that it appears the DLM has now removed interleaving from the upstream and uncapped it!!!!  Again why......  Upstream sync has been 440, with a margin of around 22-23dB, now its 1057 with a margin of around 4dB.  Again line appears to be stable, but why would the DLM do this.
Can anyone from the DCT, please post up my line profile, and if interleaving has been removed from the upstream, can it be reapplied please, as removing the upstream interleaving is what appeared to kick off the recent issues....
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

Quote from: penfold
the DLM decided in it infinite wisdom, to drop my Target margin from 9dB to 3dB,  whyHuh

It was trying to give you a faster download speed - and should have succeeded.
Quote from: penfold
the DLM has now removed interleaving from the upstream and uncapped it!!!!  Again why......  Upstream sync has been 440, with a margin of around 22-23dB, now its 1057 with a margin of around 4dB.  Again line appears to be stable, but why would the DLM do this.

Because it wants to do it's best for you and give you the fastest upload speed your line can manage.  Whilst you may associate a past such change with problems, the machine does not.
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

I thought it a bit odd DLM and logic appearing together  Grin
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

@RR
I am not complaining about an increase in speed,( in fact not complaining at all !!!), just the oddity, that the DLM has become so aggressive, and on a line thats just recovering from major issues, this could be a problem.  3 days after the issues seemed to be solved, the DLM dropped the SNRM to 3dB from 9dB, which I would have thought it would have first gone to 6...  CSC also thought this odd, but we left alone.  Now its taken interleaving off the upstream it looks like, and dropped the SNRM, although this now may be related to Daves tinkering.  If interleaving was on, I always synced at 888kbps, when upcapped. I was told a while ago this was an oddity on some DSLAMS when upload uncapped with interleaving on.
Can DCT post up my line profile please, then I can see whats actually happened.
Community Gaffer
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

Yep.  Dave's orders uncapped you yesterday. 
Your BT product is set as WBC MAX24 mb/s (ADSL2+ Annex A) Uncapped Upstream
Kelly Dorset
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

and what you probably want:  WBC 160K - 24M Medium delay (INP 1) 3dB Downstream, UC Low delay (INP 0) 6dB  Upstream (ADSL2+)
Kelly Dorset
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

Quote from: Kelly
WBC 160K - 24M Medium delay (INP 1) 3dB Downstream, UC Low delay (INP 0) 6dB  Upstream (ADSL2+)

Apologise for my ignorance but I am presuming this means up to 24M downstream, target margin 3dB interleaving on, and target margin 6dB upstream interleaving off.
Rather surprisingly, things have been quite stable, with no resyncs, so will currently leave things as they are, and monitor, but if I start becoming unstable (and its been said I am Crazy ), then I will make a request for interleaving to be reapplied to the upstream..
Current Stats
WAN PPPoA         265601 342525 0 245 1858 50:25:49
LAN 10M/100M 603592 0 0 33 0                         723:33:34
WLAN 11M/54M 8071264 5697971 0 108 303 723:33:29
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7979 kbps 1093 kbps
Line Attenuation 46.0 db 23.3 db
Noise Margin 3.4 db 5.6 db
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

Penfold, 90%+ of the time when a line is recovering from major issues those issues will have been caused by a disconnection or a bad contact, so a problem that disappears once the underlying fault is fixed.  The last thing you want under those circumstances is a DLM with a long memory that cannot believe things are better. 
Routefinder
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

An interesting post that caught my eye.
I have been on ADSL2 (note not +) since I went 21CN a while back and seeing your post prompted me to check what RouterStats was telling me now and I noted that the DLM dropped and reconnected 19hours 24mins ago up until that point I was running at 3789 sync speed with the Margin closer 3.5db (this after the last Router reboot so the various error figures are for the whole 26days to date) that apart from the UL speed is the only parameter that has changed.................like you I did not request an uncapped UL but provided the whole experince is stable lets rock 'n roll Smiley
FWIW I switched a few days ago the PLusNet Extra package from the Legacy Premier Option 1 so wonder if that has any bearingHuh
Also like you the DL is Interleaved (for the record before the last Router reboot the depth was 16 not 32) and the UL is Fast and AFAIK always has been.
Stats
DL
Noise Margin:     2.8   dB
Connection Rate:  3829  Kbps
Line Attenuation: 55.0  dB
Power:            0.0   dBm
Max Rate:         4784  Kbps

SuperFrames:      4104550
SF (CRC) Errors:  801
Reed Solomon:     266795758
RS Corrected:     9151214
RS Un-Corrected:  16035
HEC:              746
Errored Seconds:  6994
Severe ES:        77
Interleave Depth: 32
Bitswaps:         15433
UL
Noise Margin:     6.3   dB
Connection Rate:  856   Kbps
Line Attenuation: 28.7  dB
Power:            12.9  dBm
Max Rate:         880   Kbps

SuperFrames:      3902661
SF (CRC) Errors:  0
Reed Solomon:     4019213
RS Corrected:     0
RS Un-Corrected:  0
HEC:              0
Errored Seconds:  0
Severe ES:        0
Interleave Depth: 2
Bitswaps:         1837
Total uptimes
Total Uptimes (From SF counts):
WAN:   0 days, 19:23:53
LAN:   26 days, 18:54:08


CRC:  16058
LOS:  2
LOF:  18
ES :  6994
As you can see the total router uptime was nigh on 26 days before the DLM kicked in with the change
PS For what it is worth here is a thread where I posted and discussed more about my connection previously http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,107278.msg925300.html#msg925300
PPS Just did a speed test

Here the last one from a few days back, I was pleased to see the 3.26 where the typical speed had been more 3.11 so this current one with the UL uncapped does not on the face of it seem to bad.
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

Sometimes words fail me......  I posted the question about this to the CSC, before it was noted Dave had been tinkering...  This is the reply I got....
The change hasn't been made by the DLM there has been an order on your account to transfer you to newer technology in the exchange this has only just completed as as part of transferring you to the newer network it has uncapped your upstream. As your line is still stable this isn't something that we would need to re-cap for you
If this relates to ADSL2+ then surely the CSC should know that I have been on ADSL2+ for over 2 years.....
Would like to know what this new equip is, and also whats the reason Dave has been uncapping lines?
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

Quote from: penfold
The change hasn't been made by the DLM there has been an order on your account to transfer you to newer technology in the exchange this has only just completed as as part of transferring you to the newer network it has uncapped your upstream. As your line is still stable this isn't something that we would need to re-cap for you

Actually, cut them a break here.  There is a side affect of sending the upcapping order which means that a ticket is place on your account with the wrong text on.  That text is the adsl2+ upgrade text, hence the confusion.
Dave is supposed to be putting a ticket on them to explain the uncapping, but he hasn't done it yet.
Kelly Dorset
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

Quote from: Kelly

Actually, cut them a break here.  There is a side affect of sending the upcapping order which means that a ticket is place on your account with the wrong text on.  That text is the adsl2+ upgrade text, hence the confusion.

Fair enough Kelly.... Maybe I was being a tad harsh, just got back after a 15hr day at work, so a little tired.....
it seems the uncapping has caused some confusions, so will await Daves responses to this.  To be honest, things have been very stable, had 1 resync this aft, but thats all.....
adie:green fixed quote.
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

I missed that question. 
The reason we are uncapping is because we can Cheesy  We've seen that our original stability concerns around uncapping are mostly unfounded, so we can give people that increase without too much worry of causing problems.  Upload is more important nowadays with everyone sharing audio/video and uploading photos everywhere!
Kelly Dorset
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Re: ADSL2+ DLM logic

I have noticed in RouterStats that though the UL Interleave depth is still 2 it reports that both DL & UL are now Interleaved, before only the DL showed as Interleaved and for the record RouterStats still says "FAST" in the Terminal information listHuh