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£65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

cancunia
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Registered: ‎18-09-2019

Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

Forgot to ask..

I have no free call minutes in my plan.

Is 17070 free on Plusnet?

jab1
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

Free on any  landline phone.

John
Townman
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

Being a pedant ... it is a not charged diagnostic service on BT (non-LLU) lines.

IIRC this service is not available on Sky and TT lines.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

jab1
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

I nearly amended my post to clarify this, but as @cancunia is obviously on a BT line, I thought it better not to confuse things. 😉

John
cancunia
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Registered: ‎18-09-2019

Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

I ran the quiet line test and no pops or crackles, just a background hiss. I had the router plugged in at the time so maybe some of the hiss was due to that. Yesterday my line speed started to drop and this morning it got worse so I called PN support again. This time I used the test socket, PN filter & a PN router. The tests are still not conclusive, but the speed test with PN router is slower than the BT HGV router with the same line speed, no surprise there.

PN tests are ongoing & I'm waiting to hear back if they want to send an engineer out. One piece of interesting news is that as of today PN are no longer charging for engineer visits! I'm not sure if this covers all eventualities but so AFAIK it will cover 'no fault found'. 

 

 

adam945
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
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Posts: 2,319
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Registered: ‎01-12-2020

Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

thanks a lot for reaching out again @cancunia

 

sorry to hear that you're still experiencing drop outs on the line. I've run a line check which has shown that the SNRM has been reduced again, despite us amending it previously.

 

I've made some changes to the Broadband profile which will ensure that the SNRM is only reduced if there are 0 errors on the line. This will take one working day to go through. Please monitor your connection and feel free to reach out on here if you continue to experience problems throughout the week.

KBD
xDSL Status Test Summary
Sync Status: Circuit In Sync
General Information
NTE Status:   NTE Power Status: PowerOn Bypass Status:  
 
  Upstream DSL Link Information Downstream DSL Link Information
Loop Loss: 36.6 60.0
SNR Margin: 6.0 4.8
Errored Seconds: 0 0
HEC Errors: 0  
Cell Count: 40333 49343
Speed: 803 3481
 
Maximum Stable Rate (KBPS): 576 Fault Threshold Rate (KBPS): 576
Mean Time Between Retrains (Seconds): 86400 Mean Time Between Errors Upstream (Seconds): 6171
Indicative Line Quality: A Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds): 3323
Custom Thresholds
MTBR_RED: MTBE_RED:
MTBR_GREEN: MTBE_GREEN:
xDSL Status Check
Circuit ID: CBUK78038517 Service ID:  
Telephone NO.: NA Test Executed On: 13-07-2021 11:51:58
 Adam
 Plusnet Help Team - Leeds
cancunia
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Registered: ‎18-09-2019

Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

Hi, @adam945 

 

What has the SNR margin been set to?

Thanks

Townman
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

“One piece of interesting news is that as of today PN are no longer charging for engineer visits! I'm not sure if this covers all eventualities but so AFAIK it will cover 'no fault found'.”

Do you have a source for that please!

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Gandalf
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

@cancunia, I can see the target SNRM is set at 6dB:

"WBC 160K - 24M Medium delay (INP 1) 6dB Downstream, UC Medium delay (INP 2) 6dB Upstream (ADSL2+)"

 

@Townman, I believe you've since seen my post in the private superuser area about no longer charging an engineer call out fee for faults. This would still apply for new signups though as part of an order. Still, good news. Smiley

From 31st October 2022, I no longer have a regular presence here as I’ve moved on to a new role.
Anoush Mortazavi
Plusnet
Townman
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

@Gandalf 

The news is so darned good that I was suspicious about the claim.  I did a search for a supporting reference, but I could not find one.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

audigex
Dabbler
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎16-07-2021

Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

Two things here

 

1. This is exactly why I ask for a new router every time I sign up to a new contract, even if I'm not moving provider, and I'd suggest you do too. It's a horrible waste, but it's the only way to avoid nonsensical back-and-forth in this kind of situation

2. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, products must be fit for purpose, even if outside the manufacturer's warranty. If your router came as part of an 18 or 24 month contract, clearly any reasonable person is going to expect it to last for the duration of that contract, so Plusnet don't really have a leg to stand on if you're still within your initial contract. Take that one to Small Claims Court and you're gonna win every single time, even if outside the warranty - fortunately, we're not America where company's get to sign away their obligations with a contract

RobPN
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?


@audigex wrote:

 

2. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, products must be fit for purpose, even if outside the manufacturer's warranty. If your router came as part of an 18 or 24 month contract, clearly any reasonable person is going to expect it to last for the duration of that contract, so Plusnet don't really have a leg to stand on if you're still within your initial contract. Take that one to Small Claims Court and you're gonna win every single time, even if outside the warranty - fortunately, we're not America where company's get to sign away their obligations with a contract


@audigex 

I'll assume you're a lawyer because you didn't say you weren't.

I'm not sure you're correct that an ISP supplying a FoC router which is usually optional would be under any obligation to replace it if it became faulty outside the manufacturers guarantee period.  Some people, myself included, don't even bother with such devices.

Gandalf
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

To confirm, if we supply a router as part of a contract then it'll be covered for the length of the contract.

That means if the router develops a fault within the contract we supplied it in, we'll replace it free of charge.

I hope this helps. 

From 31st October 2022, I no longer have a regular presence here as I’ve moved on to a new role.
Anoush Mortazavi
Plusnet
audigex
Dabbler
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎16-07-2021

Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

The router is not "FoC" it's included in the service without being itemised... you're still paying for it, it's just part of your overall service.

And yes, I believe that they would be obligated to replace the router for free if still in the contract. Like I said, a lot of consumer law is based on the concept of "reasonable" - what would a "reasonable" (normal, not crazy) person consider to be right?

In the UK, warranties cannot (ever) override legal obligations, and the law in the UK requires that consumer goods are fit for purpose. And clearly any reasonable person is going to assume that the router you buy with a 2 year contract, will be functional for the duration of that contract.

In this case it looks like Plusnet either acknowledge this, or just do the right thing anyway, but it's worth keeping in mind if you ever run into the issue with another provider

For the avoidance of doubt: I have legal qualifications, I am not presently a lawyer nor am I a member of the Law Society, I am certainly not your lawyer

Gandalf
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Re: £65 Charge if my 3rd party router is faulty?

@audigex wrote:

In this case it looks like Plusnet either acknowledge this, or just do the right thing anyway, but it's worth keeping in mind if you ever run into the issue with another provider

@Gandalf wrote:

To confirm, if we supply a router as part of a contract then it'll be covered for the length of the contract.

That means if the router develops a fault within the contract we supplied it in, we'll replace it free of charge.

I hope this helps. 

^ Smiley 

From 31st October 2022, I no longer have a regular presence here as I’ve moved on to a new role.
Anoush Mortazavi
Plusnet