topic Re: Suggestions for email hosting in Tech Help - Software/Hardware etc

Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 13:16:30 GMT

So, I'm looking for a place to host my emails. My requirements are that it gives me the same capabilities as Plusnet:

- IMAP & POP (pretty normal)

- authenticated SMTP that allows the sending of OTHER DOMAIN emails

- 1 gig plus of storage

The need for other domain emails is simple: I own my own domain, let's call it example.org.uk. It is hosted by NamesCo, and any incoming emails are currently forwarded to my plusnet email account. That is also easy to do for most email services. Of course, having received an email paul@example.org.uk, I need to send a reply: I currently do that by relaying it to the plusnet SMTP server. That is something that (a) is not supported by all other email services; (b) is essential. I do NOT wish to use Google / Yahoo etc.

This is personal email, so I'm not wanting to spend huge amounts.

Does anyone have experience of such providers?

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

MisterW — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 13:30:40 GMT

@paul_blitz Mythic Beasts https://www.mythic-beasts.com/hosting . The 'email only' package is £20/yr if paid annually, although you could start on say a monthly/quarterly basis and then change to annually to save money.

Storage is 2GB. As for allowing sending of other domain emails, I assume when you say your domain is hosted by Namesco do you really mean 'registered' and you use their basic email forwarding. Assuming that's the case then you just add your domain to the Mythic account as a 'third party domain' , either configure the Namesco DNS or switch to the Mythic nameservers and email is then handled completely by Mythic, both sending and receiving. You can have unlimited mailboxes,aliases and hosted domains (subject to the 2GB limit).

For instance I currently have 3 domains, around 12 mailboxes and some 100 aliases

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 13:38:24 GMT

Just taken a look at their web site, they have some good support details that explain how to configure the DNS settings.

Yes, at the moment, I just use the Namesco email forwarding system, but would not be averse to tweaking my MX records. For one of my domains, I have multiple users (me, my wife, plus a few forwarders for sons, to THEIR email services): can you confirm that I'll be able to get Mythical Beasts to copy this behaviour?

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

MisterW — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 14:01:26 GMT

Yes, at the moment, I just use the Namesco email forwarding system, but would not be averse to tweaking my MX records.

Its not just MX records, you need to tweak MX, SPF and DKIM (since Mythic do support DKIM) records. When you add a domain to a Mythic account, it will create records automatically on their DNS system. If you are still using the original registrars nameservers, you can copy DNS records from the Mythic account to those OR you can just switch to the Mythic nameservers, your choice.

I have multiple users (me, my wife, plus a few forwarders for sons, to THEIR email services): can you confirm that I'll be able to get Mythical Beasts to copy this behaviour?

I believe so. You create an email address e.g son@yourdomain and then specifiy a delivery action . Typically that would be 'save in a mailbox' but you can also specify 'forward to another address' and specify the forwarding address. You can actually specify multiple delivery actions for each email address

So , taking your example , you would create mailboxes for you and your wife, Then create email addresses for those, which save to the appropriate mailbox. Then create email addresses for sons which forward to their email services. You and your wife would configure your email clients to login to your mailboxes (IMAP or POP) to collect mail and specify the Mythic SMTP server to send mail. If your sons send mail from the domain address , then they should use the Mythic SMTP to send otherwise they will get SPF/DKIM failures

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 15:16:50 GMT

> Its not just MX records, you need to tweak MX, SPF and DKIM (since Mythic do support DKIM) records.

Yes, saw that, and strangely I understand it (set it up to be able to use mailjet to send emails recently for my brother!!)

I have a "spare" domain name, so maybe I'll test things with that at some point.

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

MisterW — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 15:50:37 GMT

I have a "spare" domain name, so maybe I'll test things with that at some point.

Good plan! that's what I did, started with a quarterly subscription, tested it with a spare domain, then migrated in an active domain from Plusnet and changed to an annual subscription. Then eventually migrated in another active domain from Ecohosting when they had a price increase earlier this year.

Don't forget to consider any need to copy existing emails from the old server. Not needed if you currently use POP3 but will be if you use IMAP. I use Imapsync https://imapsync.lamiral.info/ . I have it installed on a Ubuntu Linux VM but there's a limited free online option.

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

dvorak — Wed, 23 Oct 2024 20:36:07 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Email to Tech Help

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Sun, 10 Nov 2024 19:03:09 GMT

So, I just paid for a new domain at names.co.uk, and set it to have the nameservers at Mythic Beasts. Over there, let it auto-configure the DNS. So far so good. Doing DNS tests all also look good.

But, here's the weird thing: using their web mail (useful for testing!) I can SEND emails out ok, but I'm not receiving any. For one of my email accounts I have an auto responder... but I'm not seeing ANY email in my 2 inboxes, nor am I getting the auto-responses,,,, nor is the email getting bounced!

(I can send emails out to external addresses, and it arrives ok, but any emails either internally or from external accounts never arrive)

So, will be interesting to see what their tech support discovers!

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

MisterW — Mon, 11 Nov 2024 07:38:54 GMT

@paul_blitz

So, I just paid for a new domain at names.co.uk, and set it to have the nameservers at Mythic Beasts

A nameserver change can take 24-48 hours to fully propagate but I'm not sure I'd expect that to affect internal mail between mythic accounts ?

So, will be interesting to see what their tech support discovers!

Support have been excellent when I've had need to contact them

Let us know what they say...

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

Baldrick1 — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 10:46:13 GMT

@paul_blitz

Can you find your emails using web mail?

In your email settings are you addressing the correct server, for example mine live on oncilla.mythic-beasts.com?

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 13:28:45 GMT

Yes, it was indeed a DNS propagation issue.

So 1 (test) domain moved. I haven't managed to get the responder to work properly though.

I'm currently playing with "how to move my wife's IMAP mail over": she uses a tablet, and relies on the IMAP... so I have set up IMAP on Thunderbird, and copied all of her IMAP emails to local folders. I shall then create a second thunderbird IMAP account for the new server, and then copy emails from local folders to the IMAP folder.... am I thinking right here?

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

MisterW — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 13:40:00 GMT

@paul_blitz Yes, it was indeed a DNS propagation issue.

The way to avoid that is as outlined here https://www.mythic-beasts.com/support/domains/transfer-no-downtime :-

Drop the TTL on your existing DNS

Copy the MX (and SPF) record from Mythic DNS to your existing DNS

Once the TTL has expired then all email will now be going to Mythic

Change the nameservers ( The propagation delay doesnt now matter, since both sets of nameservers have the same records)

It does assume that you have detailed control over DNS records with your existing host (won't work with a Plusnet hosted domain)

I haven't managed to get the responder to work properly though

What are you trying to do ? If you like, I'll try similar on one of my mythic hosted domains

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 15:38:04 GMT

I saw that Mythic Beasts allow you to adjust the TLL on DNS... sadly Namesco don't have that available. So, yeah, I'll match up the DNSes then flip the Nameservers.

Responder: On my new domain, I've set up several email accounts, to have a play. So I set one account to just have a responder on it. If I send it an email from another of my MB hosted accounts, then I get the response. However, if I send an email from an external service (tried Plusnet and Gmail) then I just don't get a response... nor a bounce either. If I remove the responder, and dump the email to an email mailbox, then it works fine from Plusnet & Gmail!

It's not really something I'm going to use, so I'm not too worried about it, but it would be nice to work out what's going on.

UPDATE:

Just got a reply from MB's support:

"Yes, unfortunately, the way the hosting server sends autoresponses means that they will fail SPF checks even if your domain has SPF set up correctly (which it does). This will lead many providers (GMail in particular) to reject the message.

We're looking into how to we can fix this issue, but the fix is, unfortunately, not simple, so we don't currently have a timeline for it."

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

Baldrick1 — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 15:56:22 GMT

@paul_blitz

Are you using Namesco Lite Mail for receiving emails?

When I changed my Nameservers to Mythic I continued picking up emails from both. If I remember correctly it took 2/3 days before everything was moved to Mythic. Prior to changing the Nameservers I had added the Mythic spf record to the Namesco Lite Mail control panel, which allowed me to send emails from Mythic. I don't believe that I lost any messages.

Edit.

Or did I add the Namesco spf record to Mythic? To be honest I may have done both as I was confused!

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

MisterW — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 15:56:56 GMT

We're looking into how to we can fix this issue, but the fix is, unfortunately, not simple, so we don't currently have a timeline for it."

Ah! that makes sense.

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 16:54:48 GMT

>> "Are you using Namesco Lite Mail for receiving emails?"

No, I just use Namesco to forward my email to (several) email accounts on plusnet.

Recently, my brother was unable to send emails via plusnet's SMTP servers (it was being blocked) for over a week. Combined with the apparent reduction in tech support for email, I am starting to get nervous about plusnet's email service. Plus it will make it trivial to change broadband provider.

I already have an ATA linked to an A&A account, so I can port my landline over at a moment's notice... I'll be ready for either a move to SOGEA or to a 3rd-party FTTC service.

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 17:05:59 GMT

>> "When I changed my Nameservers to Mythic I continued picking up emails from both. If I remember correctly it took 2/3 days before everything was moved to Mythic. Prior to changing the Nameservers I had added the Mythic spf record to the Namesco Lite Mail control panel, which allowed me to send emails from Mythic. I don't believe that I lost any messages. "

For my email, life is simple: I use POP3, I'm happy with moving my Outlook to a new server.

However, my wife uses IMAP on her tablet, collecting mail from her plusnet email account.... so I was thinking that if I set up a redirect at Mythic Beasts to her plusnet email account, then, in the short term she won't be affected! Then, after a few days, I can copy her IMAP emails (eg local folders on Thunderbird on my PC), remove the redirect, and reconfig the tablet to use Mythic Beasts. Last step would be to use Thunderbird to copy her historic emails up to her new IMAP email account.

Readers might be thinking "this is a lot of work to do", so I have 2 simple comments:

1) If I used a native plusnet email account, moving would be horrific, as I would need to update so many people with my new email address (not just friends, but how many login accounts use your plusnet email?)

2) If I was willing to have a 2 or 3 day email blackout, this would be a LOT easier. I'm trying to make sure I don't lose any mail. At least, I don't need to tell anyone about a changed email address!!!

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Sat, 16 Nov 2024 21:25:16 GMT

No, I'm not doing any email at Namesco: Namesco is simply forwarding email over to Plusnet.

So, an update: I set up my namesco DNS to forward the mail to MB, as well as change the nameserver main entry to point my dns over to MB. 2 days later, it's working.

I got crafty, and set up mythical beasts to both keep my email on MB, as well as forwarding a copy to my plusnet account, and as a result no email was lost... and it also has the advantage that I can take the clioent migration at my on pace for my main domain name!

To move my wife's email over, I've set up an IMAP account for her plusnet account on my Outlook, and have taken a copy of all her email to a local folder. When I'm ready, I'll update that, then set up an IMAP into Mythic Beasts, and copy the mail over from the local folders.

Re: Suggestions for email hosting

paul_blitz — Mon, 18 Nov 2024 23:21:28 GMT

And now 3 general comments regarding Mythic Beast vs Plusnet email servers:

1) Mail processing for incoming emails is a lot faster: yes, part of that is that it's no longer going first to NamesCo, then to Plusnet, but direct to the Mythic Beasts mail servers

2) Pop 3 email retrieval from Mythic Beasts seems to be a lot faster than from Plusnet.

3) The webmail (which actually uses the same webmail client, Round Cube) is actually usable: I can log in instantly, email loads (not just quickly, it actually LOADS, when PlusNet webmail often fails / times out)

I'm guessing this is the old "you get what you pay for": With Mythic Beasts, email and hosting is their business, so they will make sure it works well. With PlusNet, the core business is internet access, and email is seen, unfortunately, as "something thrown in for free" (the reality is that we DO pay for it, so we really OUGHT to get a decent service).

Now I understand how to set up & tweak the email and DNS setup at Mythic Beasts, it's actually quite easy to do stuff.

Next step is to move my "main" domain: I now have a way to move the email over that I know doesn't lose email, and can let me keep forwarding the email over to the old plusnet account until I change the email client.