topic Re: Newbie help in Tech Help - Software/Hardware etc

Newbie help

dionmills — Tue, 03 Oct 2023 13:41:37 GMT

I have just ordered PlusNet full fibre. I currently use google nest mesh. A bit of searching shows various issues but I have read that I can just plug the nest directly to the ont box?
Do I need to get rid of the Google and buy a better system?

Re: Newbie help

MisterW — Tue, 03 Oct 2023 13:58:39 GMT

@dionmills as long as the Google Nest supports PPPoE on its WAN connection and this https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Nest-Wifi/New-install-using-PPPoE/m-p/289585 seems to indicate it does, then it will be fine to connect directly to the ONT. However, if you've ordered one of the higher speed products e.g > 300Mb then there's some evidence that the Nest can't handle that throughput with a PPPoE WAN connection. You could always use the PN supplied Hub 2 as the primary router and configure the Nest as an access point...

Re: Newbie help

dionmills — Tue, 03 Oct 2023 14:00:46 GMT

Thanks, I have ordered 500
Would I be better off with a newer mesh system? If so any recommendations?

Re: Newbie help

MisterW — Tue, 03 Oct 2023 14:19:15 GMT

TBH I've never had the need for a mesh system, so no experinec of them.

If the Nest you currently have gives good wifi coverage, then I'd suggest 'sucking and see' with it on Full fibre. The evidence on throughput isn't totally conclusive. The PN Hub 2 might also give sufficient Wifi coverage although you will struggle to get > 400Mb unless both you device and router are Wifi 6 compliant ( the Hub 2 is only Wifi 5 )

Re: Newbie help

dionmills — Tue, 03 Oct 2023 14:24:50 GMT

Thank you , last question
If I use the Google directly connected to ont does that mean I can not use the hub at all?

Re: Newbie help

MisterW — Tue, 03 Oct 2023 14:50:54 GMT

If I use the Google directly connected to ont does that mean I can not use the hub at all?

Correct.

Re: Newbie help

Mejisan — Thu, 26 Sep 2024 20:23:31 GMT

Hi I have ont direct to nest wifi pro. No middleman router.

Everything is working but I experience oscillating speeds between almost nothing and fast. As though something is interrupting things . Spoke to Google who remotely tested and said that I have double nat prob and need to set my router to bridge mode. I told him again that i dont have a router other than the nest wifi pro itself.he went on to say i need to get the public ip address of my ont ?!? And also make sure I don't have vlan tagging.

I get the feeling that this google guy hasn't a clue.

Have you any idea what I can do?

Re: Newbie help

MisterW — Fri, 27 Sep 2024 06:39:45 GMT

I get the feeling that this google guy hasn't a clue.

I'll confirm that. You can't possible have double NAT unless the Nest is doing NAT twice! Also the ONT doesnt have an IP, the Nest gets the public IP from the PPPoE connection. No VLAN tagging is used.

I suggest you revert to the Hub 2 and check the problem goes away.

Re: Newbie help

Mejisan — Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:51:38 GMT

I'm pretty sure I had issues when I had the router connected too which is why I removed it but can certainly try again. Apart from putting in bridge mode what settings do I needd in place on the isp router if I use it ?

Re: Newbie help

MisterW — Fri, 27 Sep 2024 09:28:41 GMT

Apart from putting in bridge mode what settings do I needd in place on the isp router if I use it ?

You can't use bridge mode for Full fibre(FTTP). Bridge mode 'bridges' the DSL connection to a LAN port to effectively be a DSL modem. That's no use for FTTP, the ONT is the modem.

You need to leave the Hub 2 in its default router mode, change the Nest to 'Access point mode' (not sure if that's possible) and then connect it to a LAN port on the Hub 2.

However I would first check that just using the Hub 2 (without the Nest connected) whether there is is still a speed problem. If there is then you should report the problem to Plusnet. If there isn't then its obviously the Nest causing the problem.

Re: Newbie help

Mejisan — Fri, 11 Oct 2024 15:24:27 GMT

What a nightmare. Everything I'd read said use bridge mode if using the nest wifi pro with the plusnet hub2. But I guess it's just cost fttp is still so new.

There is no access point setting on the nest wifi pro so I guess I'll have to sue without.

OK so if I'm using the hub2 I don't set bridge mode but I will turn wifi off on it

Is there any other setting on the hub2 that needs adding or changing in order for me to use with the nest wifi pro?

Thanks so much for you advice

Re: Newbie help

Dan_the_Van — Fri, 11 Oct 2024 15:54:03 GMT

From what I see the term 'bridge mode' can refer to both the Hub two and the Google Nest

For the Hub two Enabling Bridge mode means Routing, NAT, DHCP Server and Local DNS will be disabled.
The Plusnet Hub will only act as a modem.

This is ONLY for DSL connections (copper wire)

The Google nest also has a 'bridge mode' this effectively make it a Wireless Access Point

See https://blinqblinq.com/google-nest-wifi-bridge-mode/ for further details.

The recommendation for Full Fibre would be set up the google nest for a PPPoE connection

HTH

Re: Newbie help

Mejisan — Fri, 11 Oct 2024 16:54:20 GMT

Hey Dan

Thanks for such a speedy reply

So to recap where I'm at.: years ago i had my set up like ont->plusnet hub2 >google nest wifi Pro with nest device set up to use ppppoe and the plusnet hub2 set to bridge mode. Eventually I removed the plusnethub2 so i just connected my nest wifi pro direct to the full fibre ont box and stopped using plusnet hub2 at all. I forget why I did this but suspect I was having some intermittent slow downs /drop outs even then

The set up without the plusnet hub2 worked but i experienced sudden dramatic slow downs to almost nothing intermittently between very fast speeds.

This has eventuallly led me to speaking to Google nest help whosaid a lot of things some of which were nonsense. They told me my isp router was causing a double nat problem I told them I did not have my plusnet router even connected to power let alone connected to the ont . They were adamant their testing showed double nat and there must be something Upstream in the plusnet line causing the problem. They also told me it might help to get a static ip. Around this time I posted the above on here and that's when I heard for the first time that I shouldn't have had the hub2 in bridge mode in my original set up as I'm fttp.

Meantime, having reached the end of the line with nest wifi support i reached out to plusnet who want me to put my hub2 on and use that for a few days to see if intermittent drop outs. As this involves getting the plusnet hub2 up and running again I thought I'd try connecting it to the Google Nest wifi pro again replicating the original set up I had but without the hub2 being in bridge mode.

And that's where I am now.( though currently the wifi pro is flashing orange and doesn't seem to be getting an Internet connection.. I'm working on figuring out why but sometimes they just need resetting to work )

I'm not sure what the benefit would be of setting the nest wifi pro to bridge mode? The link you gave ( thanks) seems to say doing so stops the mesh working which i assume means it wouldn't then connect to all my other nest wifi pro devices and is the whole point of me having the system.

Thanks in advance for advice

Re: Newbie help

Dan_the_Van — Fri, 11 Oct 2024 17:30:06 GMT

These are my thoughts

Using plusnet supplied equipment for Full Fibre the connection would be as follows (This would be the preferred connection for plusnet testing)

ONT --> Hub Two WAN port - your devices would be connected using the three LAN ports or WiFi.

Using the Google nest only (Replacing the Hub Two with the Google nest)

ONT --> Google nest with the PPPoE WAN connection --> satellite/s wired or wireless backhaul (inter connection)

Using both Hub two and Google nest

ONT --> Hub Two WAN port (this uses PPPoE login, Wireless would be disabled) --> Hub Two LAN port --> Google nest using either a static or dynamic IP Address for it's WAN connection --> satellite/s wired or wireless backhaul

This option would create Double NAT.

So when you say Hub Two in "bridge mode", what changes are you making?

Google Nest in 'bridge mode' is not what you are looking for with more than one nest device.

Re: Newbie help

Mejisan — Fri, 11 Oct 2024 18:24:43 GMT

hey

Thanks for your reply.

ONT --> Hub Two WAN port - your devices would be connected using the three LAN ports or WiFi.

As the cut outs /big slow downs are intermittent i cant quickly use this approach to confirm the supply to the house is or isnt the problem. It would need to be left this way and used regularly to test it over 3 or 4 days. But i cant do that as a single routter signal near the ont doesnt reach anywhere helpful in my house (which is why i got the very expensive nest wifi pro mesh system in the first place, sigh)

ONT --> Google nest with the PPPoE WAN connection --> satellite/s wired or wireless backhaul (inter connection)

this is what I've been doing for the last year or so and is what ive been experiencing sudden slow downs and cut outs on : ont>google nest wifi pro> other Google nest wifi pro devices wirelessly connected in a mesh network . This was the set up I had when Google support ran a test and said it was reporting double nat.

This is how my network was configured originally but with hub2 in bridge mode. Bridge mode is a setting you just toggle on in the hub2. I had read that turning on bridge mode prevents double nat in this set up but now understand from Misterw above that this should never have been turned on as only applies to fttc or adsl connections. I understand from misterw above that it should work if I turn bridge mode off but it sounds like you are saying there would still be a double nat prob?

As an aside, I have this evening been trying to get tthis last set up back up and running withiut bridge mode being on, but my stupid Google nest wifi pro is not recognising the Internet its recieving from the plusnet hub2 and is just flashing orange at me *hub2 is blue and connected to Internet)

Re: Newbie help

Mejisan — Fri, 11 Oct 2024 20:58:40 GMT

Little update; I now have ont>plusnethub2>nestwifipro >all the other nest wifi pros in mesh network working . The speeds are around 30 download on average and then occasionally up to140 . This is all when our usage isn't changing at all.ie we aren't doing more when speeds lower. No overloading going on here. These speeds are worse than when I just had the nest Pro wifi plugged into the onto and no hub2 involved.

So in short I'm now basically back to where I was 2 years ago.

Re: Newbie help

Dan_the_Van — Sat, 12 Oct 2024 07:22:33 GMT

You may already know this.

Double NAT (Network Address Translation) occurs when you have two routers back to back

For a single router; all the devices connected to your LAN are hidden behind the Broadband IP Address (sometimes know as your Public IP Address) of the router connected to the internet. This router will either connect to a modem for FTTC or a ONT for FTTP for it's broadband connection.

If you then add a second router connected to the router making the internet connection, all devices connected to the second router are hidden behind the second router WAN IP Address

Using the Hub Two in 'Bridge Mode' turns off the router function and makes it a modem only for FTTC connections, however what it not know to me and maybe @MisterW what happens when bridge mode is enabled and the WAN port is connected to the ONT with the DSL port being left disconnected?

I now have ont>plusnethub2>nestwifipro >all the other nest wifi pros in mesh network working

Are you able to use a speedtest with a device connected to the Hub Two, preferably wired? What are the results.

What backhaul method are you using for the mesh unit between each other and to the Hub?

If wireless how strong is the signal, a poor signal between mesh units will result in degraded performance.

For the best performance mesh units backhaul should be wired

Edit: The Hub Two can either be a combined modem/router using DSL port or a router using the WAN port, the firmware of the Hub auto configures to match the connection found DSL or WAN

Re: Newbie help

MisterW — Sat, 12 Oct 2024 07:47:15 GMT

I dont know for sure, but my guess would be that the WAN port is effectively disabled in bridge mode. Since the Hub 2 is no longer attempting to establish a PPPoE connection , the auto detection WAN/DSL is likely disabled.

In bridge mode the Hub 2 bridges the VDSL PTM port to an ethernet LAN port. Certainly it makes no sense to 'bridge' the WAN port to a LAN port since they are both ethernet anyway!.

It would make sense if the Hub 2 wireless could be enabled in bridge mode, since you would be able to use it as a WAP. I have a Zyxel 3925 that can be used in exactly this way, thus giving 4 LAN ports and wireless.

However, in this configuration it makes no sense to connect it to the ONT!

Re: Newbie help

Mejisan — Sat, 12 Oct 2024 08:24:41 GMT

Thanks again for the help.

I currently have it set up as ont>hub2 wanport >hub2lan> google nest Pro wifi (port w globe above it). There's nothing in dsl port. Bridge mode is off but I have done it with Bridge mode on before in my very first set up over a year ago and it seemed to work the same as it is currently. (Slow ish speedsaround 30 with spikes )

Are you able to use a speedtest with a device connected to the Hub Two, preferably wired?

We tried it wired once and it was 140 but but i suspect if i monitored for days itd be inconsistent and id see slow downs. When i did a check connected wirelessly to the google nest pro wifi this s is what gave me the speeds I mentioned last - average speeds are 30 ish with sporadic spikes of 140 ish

What backhaul method are you using for the mesh unit between each other and to the Hub?

Im not sure what you mean. The mesh devices (all google nest wifi pro devices the same as the one acting as router) connect to each other over wifi this is how they are intended to be used rather than wired. The one used as a router is wired to the hub2 in current set up ( although previously I had connected direct to ont w no hub2 Involved). All the nest wifi pro devices are in their factory/standard settings now.

The connection between all nest wifi pro devices in the mesh network is reported as great. This doesn't change so there's no issue with the mesh wifi connection.

Re: Newbie help

MisterW — Sat, 12 Oct 2024 08:53:40 GMT

@Mejisan there are quite a few reports, although mostly historical, of the Google nest causing the speed issues you are seeing.

I think you really need to confirm whather the problem is a basic problem with your FTTP connection or a problem with the Nest.

In your current configuration, with the Hub 2 in router mode, you should be able do wired tests using a Hub 2 LAN port.

Unless such tests demonstrate similar erratic speeds, then the problem would seem to be the Nest I'm afraid.