topic Re: Fibre installation process in Tech Help - Software/Hardware etc

Fibre installation process

bigfish — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 08:30:01 GMT

Hello. Would anyone be able to tell me how full fibre would be installed where a property is located about 20m from the pavement, where the fibre cable is located? City Fibre have done the initial pavement works and are currently connecting the service in the green cabinets, so we should be being offered full fibre soon.

We are having work done at our property and I was wondering if it might be a good idea to install an underground conduit from the back of pavement to the external wall and take advantage of a new trench that is being dug across our front lawn for a new water main. I am assuming that the fibre cable that runs up to the property will be fairly small and that it could be either pulled or blown through my conduit.

Does anyone, who has had fibre run from the back of pavement to a house, think this is a workable and feasible solution as I am not sure how the installers get the cable from the pavement to the house if there isn't a solution that doesn't involve digging a trench. I obviously don't want to purchase a 30m length of conduit if the installer uses a different method getting it to the property.

Thank you.

Re: Fibre installation process

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 09:05:02 GMT

@bigfish

Are you aware that Plusnet only use the Openreach network and not CityFibre's?

This page gives details of the ISPs that do use CityFibre's network:

https://cityfibre.com/homes

Re: Fibre installation process

bigfish — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 09:31:45 GMT

Well I never! No, I wasn't aware, thank you for the message Mr Paul. So how does all that work then? If PlusNet are not associated with the CityFibre network, does that mean I have to change ISP?

Re: Fibre installation process

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 09:35:47 GMT

@bigfish

"does that mean I have to change ISP"

Yes, or wait until Openreach fibre up your area.

I'm in Milton Keynes. Cityfibre finished installing their infrastructure on my estate just before the first Covid lockdown.

Openreach originally said they would be installing FTTP here by the end of next year, but that has recently been put back to late 2026.

Re: Fibre installation process

bigfish — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 09:40:22 GMT

Does that mean that Openreach have to run their own cables as that seems completely mad?

Re: Fibre installation process

jab1 — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 09:42:32 GMT

@bigfish Different networks.

Re: Fibre installation process

dvorak — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 09:48:21 GMT

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from Full Fibre to Tech Help

Re: Fibre installation process

Anonymous — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 09:54:37 GMT

@bigfish

"Does that mean that Openreach have to run their own cables"

Yes, unless BT, EE and Plusnet come to a business agreement with CityFibre to use their network. There is nothing to stop them from doing that - I'm sure that CF would welcome the business - except that BT, EE, Plusnet and Openreach are all part of the same company: BT Group plc, so CityFibre are competitors.

Is it any different from the 4 main mobile operators: 3, EE, O2 and Vodaphone each having their own masts and infrastructure?

Re: Fibre installation process

bmc — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 12:19:06 GMT

@bigfish

Is your current phone line an underground or overhead feed?

If u/c, then is there a duct already in place.? If there is CityFibre will use that.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation process

bigfish — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 12:39:34 GMT

Hello Brian, the telephone line is underground. I have no idea if this is ducted. The property is 60 years old and I cannot see any evidence of a duct from the pavement.

Re: Fibre installation process

bmc — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 12:51:24 GMT

@bigfish

Does it come up out of the ground externally or does it come under the foundations to terminate inside?

If the former you could dig down carefully to see if there's a duct.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation process

bigfish — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 13:39:10 GMT

It comes out of the ground and into an old, low level BT wall box from which the internal telephone cable runs. I think it is routed within the wall cavity, up to the loft (bungalow), and then down to our telephone sockets. Yes, I could dig to see if there is a duct, but the BT box is not in the best place for the incoming fibre cable as it would have to be on show, at the front of the property, which I'm not keen on. The better location would be at the side of the property which is directly opposite the CF pavement socket. I was thinking of installing a 15mm dia flexible duct/ conduit from the CF socket to the side wall of the house where the cable could then be routed up the wall and into the loft without it being on full view. I am hoping to be able to lay the conduit in the same trench that will be mechanically dug for our new water main - less digging for me!

I spoke to a friendly Openreach chap this morning who just happened to be sitting in a BT cable trench in the road and told him of my plan; he thought the idea was a good one but suggested that whoever puts the fibre cable in, that they might not want to put it in my conduit. Not sure why.

In terms of the place that the fibre cable is terminated. Can this be in a loft space, or is it likely that the installer will want to position the router (?) in a habitable space? At the moment I have a PlusNet router located in my hall. This has its wifi antennas switched off and I use a ORBI hub and satellite to distribute wifi. The PlusNet router has all of its ethernet ports in use. I have an ethernet cable linking the PlusNet router with the ORBI hub and the systems seems to work well.

Could a full fibre system replicate what we have now?

Re: Fibre installation process

bmc — Mon, 19 Jun 2023 14:54:09 GMT

@bigfish

I think you're in the land of the unknown when it comes to a CityFibre installation - as you might well have been if was OR FTTP. Have a look at the following - https://cityfibre.com/homes/installation

I think it unlikely CF would go to the loft for the Optical Network Terminator (ONT). I suppose you could phone and ask and see if you can get any general answers. They wouldn't be able to guarentee anything - only on the day of install do you get definite answers.

If the ONT has to be on the inside of an external wall think where you'd like it. It needs a power source. The good thing however is that the Router connects via an ethernet cable so can go in a different place. Look at the partner ISP's of CF to see who you might go with and their routers. You might be able to put it up in the loft but this would require a power socket (and perhaps a second one if you wanted to install an ethernet switch to run more than 4 cables out).

As you're having work done can you run internal ethernet cable - say one from the preferred entry point up to the loft and then from the loft down to desired locations in the property. Terminate them in wall sockets and then it's just a case of running cable to your devices.

From the installation page and video it appears CF will put the incoming ONT in a location of your choice so long as it's possible so internal cabling would be reasonably guarenteed to be used. Externally I think you could put a duct in from the wall to you desired entry point and hope that CF can use it. Remember to tape off either end to prevent soil ingress and put it at an angle to allow water drainage. It might be wasted money at the end of the day - that's just a chance you'd have to take.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation process

bigfish — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 08:16:45 GMT

Hello Brian. Unfortunately, my efforts to speak to CityFibre came to nought. I have a feeling that they will point me to my chosen ISP. I contacted Giganet and they were unable to help and suggested that I would have to wait for an engineer to discuss our preferred route.

I am going to have have a proper think about how we might get an ethernet cable up into the loft from where I think will be the ISPs preferred entry point as this room is finished and decorated and I really don't want conduit running up the wall!

Re: Fibre installation process

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 10:08:38 GMT

@bigfish

Is it practical for you to run an external grade ethernet cable, (I gather from others on these forums that these are available), from the proposed ONT location, back through the external wall, (either through the same hole that the fibre comes in through or a new adjacent one), up the wall and in to the loft?

Re: Fibre installation process

bmc — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 10:14:57 GMT

@bigfish

@Anonymous beat me to it - that was going to be my next suggestion if you don't fancy re-decorating your chosen room. External grade SCC Cat5e cable. It would probably need a second hole and could be terminated in an ethernet wall socket.

To keep things neat you can get downward (and upward, left and right) facing ethernet cables for the short hop from the ONT to the socket.

Probably something that can't / shouldn't be done until your ONT's actually on the wall.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation process

bigfish — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 10:44:16 GMT

Well you have just read my mind! Yes, that is perfectly possible and as luck would have it, our electrical engineers arrived today (who are working on our extension) and I discussed this idea with them and you can either get external grade ethernet and/ or external grade conduit and take a route from inside to outside at low level and then back in again to access the loft. They suggested that CityFibre will probably want to locate the router as near to the ONT as possible, which will mean incorporating an ethernet switch in the hall near where we currently have a number of ethernet cables terminating in our PlusNet router.

I am feeling more confident that this is a workable solution which will avoid any wall chasing, dust and unpleasantness!

Thank you for your responses and interest.

Re: Fibre installation process

RealAleMadrid — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 11:56:16 GMT

@bigfish There is no reason or any need for the router to be anywhere near the ONT. Unless you are going for a MultiGigabit service the router is connected by a normal Cat5e ethernet cable with 100 metre maximum length. (long enough for most houses😀)

The router could be positioned for better wi-fi coverage, such as near the centre of the house.

Re: Fibre installation process

bmc — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 12:06:53 GMT

@bigfish

You pays your money and you takes your chance!!!

If you're happy running external cable yourself then you have a workable solution which enables you to plan and spend money if you're willing to take a chance.

From reading the CityFibre installation page and from what I know of OR installs they will come in at your desired point if possible. You could install duct to take advantage of the open trench (at a slight angle to ensure water runoff and tape up either end) and hope that CF will use it (take a picture of it in place). The other posibility is CF use the OR duct (and if OR ever offer FTTP they would). In this case are you happy to trench round the house to your chosen point. If doing your own trench both FY and OR would presumably be happy for it to go from where the OR duct enters your property.

This would guarentee your chosen entry point and allow to to plan what happens inside.

Given that routers connect via ethernet cable I do not see why they need to be near the ONT. If they insist then there's nothing to stop you complying when the installing engineers are there and then moving it as soon as the door closes on them going out.

If you're willing to take the chance then there's nothing to stop your installing the external ethernet cable in advance up to the loft. Simply ensure that it isn't located in a position that would affect the incoming fibre cable and ONT. I believe solid copper core Cat5e external cable would be enough. While Cat6 offers more capacity (cut same speed) it's far less flexible when going round corners.

Brian

Re: Fibre installation process

Anonymous — Wed, 21 Jun 2023 12:58:42 GMT

@bmc

"While Cat6 offers more capacity (cut same speed) it's far less flexible when going round corners."

Isn't Cat6 cable normally better screened than Cat5e, which partly explains why it is less flexible - but would make it less prone to picking up interference?