topic Re: Help - old BT wiring in Tech Help - Software/Hardware etc

Help - old BT wiring

crisk — Thu, 15 Apr 2021 19:02:14 GMT

Had some renovations done which involved removing the old phone which was attached to wall when we moved in. Looks like this was plugged in to the master socket which is wired to a box above the front door where phone line comes in from outside. Other wires come from this box to an extension and the other I believe is an ISDN line. I want rid of all this and to move the master socket- what are my options? Does this have to be done by an Open Reach engineer?

Re: Help - old BT wiring

jab1 — Thu, 15 Apr 2021 19:07:26 GMT

@crisk Welcome to the forums. In answer to your question - yes, only OpenReach are allowed to carry out work on BT equipment.

Note: there is a £160.00 charge for this.

Re: Help - old BT wiring

Gel — Thu, 15 Apr 2021 21:01:00 GMT

Many competent in DIY will do themselves anyway; plenty of guidance videos on You Tube.
Sometimes in local paper you'll see ads from ex O/Reach engineers offering to undertake such work.

Re: Help - old BT wiring

VileReynard — Fri, 16 Apr 2021 19:28:50 GMT

Aren't consumers allowed to pull appropriate wires out of the consumer side of the main socket?

If you try it and fail [but not obviously], you would only have to pay £160 to get it fixed, anyway.

Re: Help - old BT wiring

jab1 — Fri, 16 Apr 2021 19:33:34 GMT

Yup, @VileReynard - what you do beyond the test socket is up to you, but if you bork it, it is expensive to repair - unless you know how. 😀

Re: Help - old BT wiring

crisk — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 09:31:24 GMT

Thanks guys! This is my problem, I read somewhere on here that anything before master socket is OR responsibility and all the wiring is. Everything radiates from the brown junction box where cable enters the house which comes before the master socket! I’d add a pic if I could work out how!

Re: Help - old BT wiring

crisk — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 11:35:19 GMT

Managed to add image but its switched round - wire at the bottom goes right to the master socket

Wire on left goes down to master socket

Re: Help - old BT wiring

jab1 — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 11:54:42 GMT

I've never seen an incoming box like that, before - have any idea where the other cables go? That is definitely something for an OpenReach engineer to look at, though.

@198kHz - any thoughts?

Re: Help - old BT wiring

VileReynard — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 12:08:43 GMT

If it's not the BT master socket, it's yours and you can do what you like with it.

edited for apostrophes.

Re: Help - old BT wiring

jab1 — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 12:17:59 GMT

@VileReynard That is an incoming socket belonging to BT/OR as it is before the master socket - not something I would advise a member of the public to fiddle with, TBH.

Re: Help - old BT wiring

crisk — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 12:35:59 GMT

Thanks, that's what I thought. The other wires go to an extension upstairs and another extension( which our router is plugged into) and an isdn box in the living room. I wanted to just disconnect the upstair extension and isdn as we don't need them but loathed to touch in case it affects the phone/broadband. Ho hum looks like an engineer it will have to be. Thanks for your help, appreciated.

Caroline 🙂

Re: Help - old BT wiring

jab1 — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 12:50:41 GMT

No problem - I would get the engineer to check the cabling, btw - looks a bit suspect to me - but I'm not a telecomms engineer, so it might be OK.

How old is the property, and how long have you lived there, if you don't mind me asking? Still mystified about that box.

Any wiring your side of the test socket in the master socket is yours to do as you wish with, but looking at that picture, I would get the engineer in to move the master socket, and talk nice to him and see what he can do about the rest.

Re: Help - old BT wiring

MisterW — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 05:51:23 GMT

looks a bit suspect to me

looks a right dogs b'fast to me!

Re: Help - old BT wiring

crisk — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 08:33:35 GMT

Hi John,

The house is from 1922 and we’ve lived here 8 years. Been having trouble with phone and broadband so thought it’s maybe about time to get this sorted. There’s no internal wiring past the master socket, everything comes from the brown box above the door although it looks like the isdn box comes from the socket in living room. Bit like the pic below. We currently have phone plugged into master socket and router into living room extension. All that said, I had a closer look at the wiring on the outside of the house and notice a further box in the eaves where the line reaches the house and that has no cover on it and all the wiring hanging out! We've had intermittent problems with phone/broadband and thinking this may be cause. Am I right in thinking Open Reach need to fix this and at no cost to me?

Re: Help - old BT wiring

198kHz — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:11:25 GMT

That box above the door is a Block Terminal No 20/8 , and you don't see many of those these days.

Your broadband would almost certainly improve if the wiring was regularised.

If you feel you can do it yourself, then go ahead - BTOR don't keep a record of what goes where in a customer's house, and any cables, sockets etc are available from run-IT-direct .

Alternatively, many ex-BT engineers advertise such services in local papers.

I assume this mess of wiring was there when you moved in. In that case, perhaps BTOR would do the job at no cost to you, but I don't know.

Maybe @Gandalf would know?

Re: Help - old BT wiring

jab1 — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:23:53 GMT

@crisk The reply above (from @198kHz ) is much better than any I could come up with - I'd go with that - but you certainly need it tidying up.😀

Re: Help - old BT wiring

jgb — Mon, 19 Apr 2021 12:51:28 GMT

Some years ago now, I had an issue with my broadband but could not carry out the necessary tests as using the test socket did not isolate the house extensions. Those extensions had been installed by BT by connecting into the grey junction box on the outside wall from which the master socket connection was also made. When I reported this to Plusnet, they got it regularised by Openreach at no cost to me. However that was about ten years ago. The original arrangement was installed shortly after the house was built about 30 years ago.

One point to note is that the Openreach engineer who sorted things out simply used a short length of new cable to facilitate an extension connection from the front plate of the master socket to separate connections within the grey junction box and reconnected the existing extension cabling in the junction box to those connections this leaving the junction box to master socket as it was. Thus it is possible that your cabling is not as hopeless as it looks at first sight but it would probably benefit from an overhaul by Openreach or another competent person.

Since those days I have removed all extension connections and only have my router and a landline base station connected to the master socket with several wireless phones elsewhere in the house.

Re: Help - old BT wiring

Gandalf — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 12:41:14 GMT

If you’re having issues with your service, I’d recommend raising a fault rather than request a master socket relocation because the latter would undoubtedly cost £160 and that’d be for an engineer to move the existing master socket while likely retaining the wiring as it is.

Through a fault investigation however it’s likely an engineer will modernise the master socket isolating any suspect wiring. The most it’ll cost you is £65 (or free, depending on how the engineer signs the job off if they mark it as your responsibility or Openreach’s)

The caveat with a fault investigation is that the engineer may not be able to move your master socket as that work generally needs to be carried out on the back of a master socket relocation (internal shift) order due to how much time engineers are allocated.

Potentially you could be faced with a £65 and £160 charge. Depending on how you want to go about it, you could get an engineer out to move the master socket first and if they’re not able to tidy the wiring up/provide a new master socket while they’re there, then raise a fault afterwards for a fault engineer to visit.

I’d still recommend though going down the fault route first if you’re having issues with your service as it’s the cheaper option and possibly free as well which may hit two birds with one stone (no actual birds will be harmed)

I hope this helps.

Re: Help - old BT wiring

198kHz — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 16:12:33 GMT

@crisk I'd be inclined to go with @Gandalf 's first suggestion, with the proviso that you have some tea/coffee and choccy biccies available, as they tend to make engineers more cooperative. 😉

Re: Help - old BT wiring

crisk — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 16:21:21 GMT

Thank you @Gandalf, @198kHz , @jab1 et al

Based on the dodgy box outside in the eaves I'm going to report a fault, which we get intermittently (horrendous noise on the line, internet dropping out and speed yo-yoing (high ping and lost packets according to my son). Will supply tea and choccy biscuits on tap and maybe he/she will take kindly and scrap the dodgy wiring in the process. Thanks for all your help and advice, much appreciated.

Caroline