topic Distributing Data around Larger Properties. in Tech Help - Software/Hardware etc

Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Baldrick1 — Sun, 23 Aug 2020 13:53:28 GMT

In answering other posts I have been giving the options some consideration and for better or worse decided to post my thoughts here.

There are currently four ways of improving the distribution of Wi-Fi around properties, each has its strengths and weaknesses. These are:

Ethernet cable.
Powerline converters.
Wireless extenders.
Wireless Mesh Units.

Taking each in turn:

Ethernet cable.

By far the cheapest and most reliable method of getting the best possible distribution of data. Most router Ethernet ports are capable of data rates of up to 1Gbps (1000 Mbps). This speed can be connected to remote equipment with CAT5E cable lengths anything up to 100m so is more than enough for the vast majority of properties. Higher spec cable (CAT 6 and 7) are available but tend to be bulkier and rarely justified. There are two options here:

All lengths of ready terminated cable are available from on line retailers. This can be hidden under carpets, tacked to skirting boards etc.
With simple DIY skills it is practicable to buy lengths of unterminated cable and install it in a much more professional manner. As the cable is around 5mm diameter it is easy to drill through walls end hide the cable from sight. For example, I have cable runs that passes through built in wardrobes into the loft across the loft down through another built in wardrobe, through the ceiling down the back or a built in oven housing in the kitchen then through the wall into the hall where the Hub lives. Remember cable is cheap and as long as the length is less than 100m then circuitous routes are not an issue, it’s just a case of how much time and effort is put into hiding cable runs. Whilst plugs can be fitted to this cable it is much neater to fix a wall box and wire the cable to a socket. This can then be connected to devices with a short patch lead.

If Wi-Fi is required at the remote location then a Wireless Access Point can be located at the far end of the cable. These generally also include an Ethernet switch so that Ethernet can also be distributed from this point.

Powerline Converters.

These impose the Ethernet data onto the mains supply and distribute the data via the mains cabling. Due to background noise, the condition of mains wiring and the way the mains wire is distributed from the Consumer Unit can affect how well these work. This post gives an example of how these can perform in one particular property: https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Powerline-Unit-Performance/m-p/1607450#M85015

If these are used the password should be changed from the default. It is not unknown for neighbours to also have these devices with the same default password leading to cross connections.

If Wi-Fi is required at the remote location then there are Powerline devices with a remote unit that includes a wireless unit.

Wireless Extenders

This is a cheap and cheerful way of getting some improvement. When fitting these it is essential that there is a good wireless connection with the main router else their effectiveness is greatly diminished.

Wireless Mesh Units

With all wireless extenders it is normal practice for the router and remote unit to have different SSIDs in order to stop interference between the two wireless networks. This can be a great disadvantage with portable devices as they are moved between the best ranges of a wireless unit, frequently not automatically switching over to the better signal.

Mesh systems are the latest answer to this. They all transmit the same synchronised SSID so automatically connect to the strongest wireless signal. These however can suffer from the same problem as Wi-Fi extenders in that if there is a poor connection between say the base unit, which may either be a unit connected to the router or built into the router, and the next remote unit in the chain then wireless performance will be degraded. This can be rectified in many systems via an enhancement whereby the wireless units can be interconnected via an Ethernet cable ‘back haul’.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Nick100 — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 11:14:11 GMT

Thanks for that useful summary of options.

I have just started with a plusnet hub 2 and have the same problem.

Previously I had a reasonable Wifi coverage using BT anywhere. I have a hardwired network with plenty of ethernet sockets and added 3 BT wifi discs to get coverage. Unfortunately the BT discs don't seem to want to work with the plusnet hub 2.

Is there a particular MESH device that you would recommend to connect to a wired network, that are compatible with the plusnet hub 2?

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Townman — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 13:20:49 GMT

@Baldrick1

A really useful article (only just seen it due @Nick100 's comment!).

Ethernet wiring around the house - in many properties with plaster board on blobs, the cables can be dropped behind the plasterboard. I did that for all of my phone extensions and TV aerial drops. Not yet motivated to do similar for a data network.

WiFi extenders - is there a necessity for these to have separate SSIDs or is it just the way they set up as default? It would be worth mentioning that these will rarely fulfil expectations as they need to use the WiFi bandwidth to "relay" traffic, effectively halving the WiFi speed.

WiFi AP - (either ethernet or Powerline connected) - I have remote WAPs and use the same SSID on everything so as to provide seamless roaming. This can both work and be tricky, especially of the connected device has too much (or too little) "stickability" (Roaming Aggressiveness) to a WiFi SSID. Another key distinction of APs over extenders is that APs generally act as routers providing a sub-network and DHCP service, which might keep local traffic off the back haul ... but that is getting a bit complex!

WiFi Mesh - what sets these apart from a collection of remote WAPs and specifically if using WiFi for the back haul a collection of inefficient WiFi extenders?

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Baldrick1 — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 14:02:52 GMT

@Townman

I suspect that whether you can or cannot use the same SSID for extenders and WAPs are entirely dependant on the connected devices. If you can move seamlessly around a property with the same SSID it throws up another thought as to whether the two devices should use the same or different wireless channels? Back in 2020 when I produced the above post I felt that using separate SSIDs were the safest solution. I don’t know if the ‘stickiness’ is influenced by the SSID being the same or the channels used by the two devices? If they both have the same SSID and use the same wireless channel does that confuse devices?

This begs the question as to whether it is worth the cost of mesh if simple extenders give seamless performance, unless of course that the mesh backhaul effectively doubles the bandwidth?
I confess I know very little about how mesh works. Does the backhaul need the same bandwidth as the ‘forward path’ (does it have a name?)? If so these mesh devices that use Powerline for the backhaul could be vulnerable to different circuit issues.

My current thinking is that the best solution for wireless at FTTP speed is mesh with an Ethernet backhaul.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Townman — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 14:06:42 GMT

Certainly the use of ethernet back haul leaves the full Wi-Fi bandwidth available for end-device to router connectivity, unshared with WiFi AP to router back haul necessity.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Baldrick1 — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 14:23:23 GMT

@Nick100

Sorry for getting diverted from your question. The Plusnet hub cannot be used as part of a mesh. If you are on fibre or fibre extra FTTC then you can set the Hub 2 to bridge modem mode and use it with any mesh router that allows a PPPoE connection. You will probably get as many recommendations as answered as that is about all. Alternatively you can use the Hub 2 as is with simply a mesh add on setup. I believe that BT sell a good value product that simply plugs in to one of the hub LAN sockets.

If you are on FTTP full fibre then you do not need a Hub 2. Simply buy a mesh router.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Baldrick1 — Tue, 17 Jan 2023 14:27:05 GMT

@Townman

I also assume that the Ethernet backhaul removes the need for there be a wireless connection between satellites.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

retnartsl — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 11:30:16 GMT

Hi thank you for your reply I have an office in the garden with a Ethernet cable going to it as wanted to get Wi-Fi there and wondered what extenders are compatible please?

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Townman — Fri, 21 Jul 2023 14:25:38 GMT

You do not need “extenders” if you have an Ethernet cable to the location you want WiFi.

You need a WiFi Access Point (router) which you attach to the end of the Ethernet cable. That can be a specific device for that purpose or the repurposing of an old WiFi router.

Technology names can be confusing - you have in your mind “extending WiFi coverage” but a WiFi extender is a specific technology solution which probably will not serve your needs best.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Gr3len — Sat, 27 Sep 2025 09:41:09 GMT

Thank you for this useful article. I have one question: I need to extend my connection to multiple areas of the property. I will use CAT5E cable as recommended. Can I daisy chain the WAPs with no loss of speed or should I directly cable each of them to the Plusnet Hub Two router?

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Townman — Sat, 27 Sep 2025 10:27:48 GMT

If the WAPs have a second Ethernet port then that would work, however that would firmly fix the location of the WAPs.

What would be the total length?

Putting them all on one router port means they all share the 1GB channel. That might not be proficient. What works and what performs might not be the same with your approach.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Gr3len — Sat, 27 Sep 2025 10:46:45 GMT

Thanks. I'm thinking 25m and 50m.so 75m as a daisy chain or else I need to run 75 and 25 if run direct from the hub

Regarding the firm fixing - if I understand you correctly, you mean the placing of the 1st wasp would not be easily movable due to the wap2 dependency on it? If so, I was thinking that I would test the speed of the first one before deciding on it's final position.

I'm assuming that because the length is less than 100 m there would be no loss in Speed but that's one thing I'm unsure about.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Townman — Sat, 27 Sep 2025 10:54:44 GMT

You are correct on all points.

As for location, it’s not speed, but WiFi coverage. The LAN connection will be 1Gbps, but you are NOT going to get that over WiFi

Your key considerations are the coverage across the three WiFi APs - router and 2x WAPs. There is a tendency for the router being located on an outside wall near where the BT circuit enters the premises. That is not proficient for WiFi coverage - consider the area of coverage to be a circle - half of it goes outside the building … usually not into “your space”.

Your need for coverage might be better served by moving the router into a more central location. If you have FTTP that’s easier than if you don’t. There’s lots of articles around here discussing that.

Putting both WAPs on the same router port does not change speed, but the capacity is shared between devices so effective data transfer rates might be impacted.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Gr3len — Sat, 27 Sep 2025 11:34:06 GMT

Ok, thanks. Based on what you say it makes sense for me to try the central location first. - as in place the hub in the hallway connected to the fttp via Ethernet cable and then experiment with this position to find the best location and then check speeds around the house to see where the struggle points are?

Maybe I was getting confused with using WAPs. If I find a weak signal to certain remote locations after going this, what do you suggest?

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Baldrick1 — Sat, 27 Sep 2025 11:40:49 GMT

@Gr3len

There are many variations on Ethernet wiring layout. On a backhaul network that I have installed for a friend, cabling runs from the mesh master unit to a cupboard fairly central to the property, where I have installed a 5 port Ethernet switch. From here separate cables run to other parts of the property. This has given the option to additionally add another two Ethernet cables to other locations if necessary. These could be extra mesh satellites.

The switch provides buffering so I assume reduces any exceeding 100m concerns.

I understand @Townman’s comment regarding excessive data loading on a single link, but I assume that should only be a problem if you are moving large amounts of data around your local network. Under other circumstances, I assume that the 1Gbps backhaul would be compatible with an up to 900Mbps connection with the outside world.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Townman — Sat, 27 Sep 2025 12:09:34 GMT

@Gr3len wrote:
... what do you suggest?

That all depends on what do you want to achieve balancing...

Cost
Performance
Capability
... but most importantly of all PTW from SWMBO

@Baldrick1 makes the point well, there are many approaches to distributing a network around the property, but it is not just about access, but also performance.

If in the remote location you just need connection for email and website browsing then a dreaded WiFi extender might do the job - it needs no wires, but connects to the router over WiFi - it works but it halves the throughput of the WiFi as it needs to receive and retransmit everything. It is therefore of no use for bandwidth intensive applications such as streaming, gaming or VoIP.

Your proposed approach is pragmatic, though if you have no need for blistering speed you could look at PowerLine adapters, such as the Develo range. You can put a WAP anywhere that there is a power socket. I have used them extensively and are a tidy solution (no wires so no irritation in the SWMBO department).

As a first step, moving the router to see if you really need WAPs at all is a sensible approach, so long as you have an objective way of measuring performance. If you have two (or more) laptops, I would recommend the following...

Get a long uncoiled extension cable an plug the router in to it
Connect the router on a long ethernet cable to the FTTP ONT
Install Metageek's inSSIDer wifi analyser on each computer (needs to be windows) the previous versions are free
Locate the devices at your remote points
Run the analyser and note the signal strengths for your wifi**
Separately run speed tests to the same speed tester - be cautions of the results if the devices are or markedly different specifications
Move the router to wherever as the length of the power lead and ethernet cable permits
Repeat 5-7 until the results are equal

The above will give you a mid point; if in each location the performance of neither is adequate, then you will need to move the router to the area you consider to be more important and then work out how to get better WIFI coverage elsewhere. It might be two WAPs in a row as you suggested initially, it might be two WAPs (either ethernet connects or Power-Line devices) in the extremities if they are in opposite directions.

**looking at signal strength is more objective than speed tests as you can be sure that you are looking at the same thing. Wet finger in the air speed tests does not discern important detail - which WiFi band the device is connected to will have some impact on measured speed tests. For (6) ensure that the devices are connected to the same band - 2.4GHz or 5Ghz.

Also whilst looking at the analyser, inspect the spectrum usage. To be 'friendly' to all users, WiFI should only use channels 1, 6 or 11 - 'rouge' operators on other channels will degrade the performance for everyone. Having one of the above clear of other users is ideal, however being co-channel is far better than being on an overlapped channel. If some other part of the spectrum is cleaner than the channel being used by your router, you can fore the use of 1, 6 or 11 in the router's WiFi settings. That alone could deliver improved performance without the installation of WAPs.

Re: Distributing Data around Larger Properties.

Gr3len — Sat, 27 Sep 2025 12:24:45 GMT

I appreciate your detailed replies @Baldrick1 and @Townman, many thanks to you. I feel like I have plenty to explore now.