topic Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk) in Tech Help - Software/Hardware etc

Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

NorthEasterner — Thu, 22 May 2014 20:53:35 GMT

Hi
I'm looking for an Airband scanner and speaker to listen to my local airport for inbound and outbound flights.
The device doesn't have to have a microphone as I don't want to speak direct to the tower or planes.
Would be useful to know if any special (unusual) planes coming in and out, As I missed a BA 777-300ER after it was diverted from Tokyo to London as it was bad weather conditions at Heathrow resulting the divert of this beauty.
Regards
NE

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

picbits — Thu, 22 May 2014 20:57:30 GMT

Have you looked at the DVB-T dongles which also double up as software radios (rt-SDR) ?
Cost about a tenner delivered from China and if you put a proper aerial up outside can pick up anything from a few Mhz to Ghz
http://www.essexham.co.uk/news/realtek-sdr-pc-dongle-for-under-20-pounds.html

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

Strat — Thu, 22 May 2014 23:13:38 GMT

I have one of these which I use to listen in to pilot to ATC conversations.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

shutter — Thu, 22 May 2014 23:17:29 GMT

Do you want a "desk" scanner/receiver... or a handheld/pocket scanner
Maplin do a pocket scanner AR109 for about £70.00 but it needs some rooting around in the manual, and practice to set up the most used freqs for quick scanning, instead of scanning the whole airband range...
A Desk/Scanner will need a proper VHF antenna, best in an open high location.. Pocket scanners have very limited ground range, but will pick up "airside" traffic due to the aircraft height/direct line of sight reception.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

petlew — Fri, 23 May 2014 04:50:44 GMT

Have been an occasional airband listener for donkey's years, there are lots of these frequency listings around but this one is as Ok as any http://www.airscene.co.uk/tinc?key=lcQ5Iywa&formname=uk_avi_db
Airband scanners are not designed to transmit only receive, so you wouldn't be able to "talk" to air traffic anyway.
I have one of these, and for a hand-held its very good: http://www.flightstore.co.uk/pilot-supplies-c1/airband-radios-c51/uniden-bearcat-airband-radios-c52/uniden-ubc-ezi-33-xlt-airband-scanner-p3439?gclid=COjvp4Cgwb4CFUfLtAodsigAQw%3Fgclid%3DCOjvp4Cgwb4CFUfLtAodsigAQw#3864

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

petlew — Fri, 23 May 2014 05:16:10 GMT

My interest was always ground movements at airports. For hand-helds you need to be fairly close to an airport for this as hills and tall buildings will block signals. Having said that, since I live near the top of a 600ft hill I can easily pickup (if a little faintly) Heathrow ground which is over 24 miles away as I am on the same side of the hill. Luton which in a straight line from here is about 8 miles I can't get at all as its the wrong side of the hill for me.
However its compensated for as I live within spitting distance of the Bovingdon beacon, where many aircraft circle stacking waiting release to land at Heathrow, Luton or sometimes Gatwick. In clear dark conditions there are many aircraft circling the beacon at different altitudes (hopefully) to be seen, with practice it doesn't take long to work out which ones are heard on the scanner.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

Strat — Fri, 23 May 2014 10:07:23 GMT

My Icom has a very wide frequency range of 0.150–1309.995MHz in AM, FM and WFM modes.
I currently have Shanwick Oceanic and Manchester, Doncaster, and East Midlands Airports programmed into individual scan banks for when I'm in the area.
Also with the aid of ARC5 software and a small cable I can back up and configure my scanner using my PC.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

gleneagles — Fri, 23 May 2014 10:32:42 GMT

Quote from: NorthEasterner
Hi

The device doesn't have to have a microphone as I don't want to speak direct to the tower or planes.

Regards
NE

Doubt you would find one that had a microphone that allowed you to contact the tower or planes as that would be illegal, it is of course fairly easy to rig a transmitter up to transmit on the same frequency as the tower or planes but you would soon be getting a knock on the door,
I know you clearly state you have no intention of transmitting but thought I would add this out of interest.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

AndyH — Fri, 23 May 2014 10:44:58 GMT

What range do these handheld scanners have? Or what range do planes transmit their broadcastings?

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

petlew — Fri, 23 May 2014 11:59:34 GMT

This forum may help <or confuse you>: http://community.vatsim-uk.co.uk/topic/13460-airband-scanner-range/
How long is a piece of string comes to mind.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

shutter — Fri, 23 May 2014 12:48:40 GMT

Quote

What range do these handheld scanners have? Or what range do planes transmit their broadcastings?

Airband, is in the VHF band range of frequencies...... Generally speaking, this means " line of sight " communication is possible... If there are "solid" objects in the way, hills, buildings, then reception is severely restricted.... because aircraft are "in the air". The "line of sight" depending on their height, will govern the distance from the receiving station ( you with your handheld ). that you can receive transmissions..
I.E. An aircraft at 36,000 feet may also be 10 miles away... and you will (probably) be able to hear them.... the ATC ground transmitter could be 1 mile away, on the other side of a hill, and you will not hear them.
Also, some frequencies "carry" better than others, so you "may" be able to hear both sides of the traffic......
bear in mind that most transmissions, on both sides ( air and ground) will take less time "on air" than it has taken for you to read this....
usually about 5 to10 seconds !....

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

NorthEasterner — Fri, 23 May 2014 21:21:39 GMT

I live a few miles from the airport around 5 miles from the Newcastle airport tower.
However there is houses around my as I live on a estate in a suburb, will I still be able to receive a signal? I can fit an aerial to receive the signal if possible.
One of my friend who is a pilot for Thomson has a airband scanner but its top end professional and can send and receive transmission from the aircraft and talk to it if necessary. However he is only aloud to use the talk function when he is on airport grounds and only at Newcastle and the destination airport.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

shutter — Fri, 23 May 2014 22:30:19 GMT

You can make a "simple" VHF antenna from this design
http://www.hamuniverse.com/2metergp.html
However it is designed to work on 146MHZ (2 mtr ham band)... so you will have to re-configure the maths for ( say 125 MHZ ).. which should cover most of the Airband you are likely hear...
Change the 146 in the Freq (MHZ)
use this page for your calculations....
http://www.onlineconversion.com/frequency_wavelength.htm
bear in mind you will be working on a "Quarter Wavelength" antenna..... so 125MHZ would give a length for the vertical A about 24 inches
I have made one of these and hauled it up to the rain guttering on a two story house... it works reasonably well, but would be a lot better if it were in the middle of the garden at the top of a 30 foot pole. i.e. clear of obstacles in all directions... even so...in my location near Portsmouth.... I can still hear London ATC ( probably a repeater ) and aircraft as far away as the channel islands in incoming flight paths.... However... I do use a dedicated VHF receiver on mains power.... not a hand held scanner.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

petlew — Sat, 24 May 2014 09:44:29 GMT

I have a magnetic mount (useful for car) centre coil loaded airband twig (remember that from your CB days) because its coil loaded its much shorter than this one http://www.cbradioshop.co.uk/air-band-mag-mount-aerial-210-p.asp
I also fortuitously have a shed with a steel roof, which forms a wonderful ground-plane, extending the range by many miles. But I did find it worked even better when I bent the upper half of aerial above the coil to allow for the slope of the roof.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

AndyH — Sat, 24 May 2014 10:01:43 GMT

What about radar scanning?
Has anyone tried something like this - http://www.rtl-sdr.com/adsb-aircraft-radar-with-rtl-sdr/ ?

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

Santiago — Sat, 24 May 2014 13:37:09 GMT

I believe listening to ATC transmissions is illegeal in the UK.

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

NorthEasterner — Sat, 24 May 2014 16:21:22 GMT

only talking to the ATC if you don't have a pilots license.
However if you have a license then you can listen and talk but only in certain circumstances

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

shutter — Sat, 24 May 2014 16:59:59 GMT

Quote from: AndyH
What about radar scanning?
Has anyone tried something like this - http://www.rtl-sdr.com/adsb-aircraft-radar-with-rtl-sdr/ ?

Or....
Try this .....
http://www.flightradar24.com/51.42,1.75/7

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

shutter — Sat, 24 May 2014 17:02:12 GMT

Quote from: Oddball
I believe listening to ATC transmissions is illegeal in the UK.

so is using a mobile phone whilst driving... or .... growing/smoking canabis..... dealing drugs...... driving whilst under the influence....... et al......
Can`t say I have heard of anyone being prosecuted for illegally listening to Airband transmissions....

Re: Airband for receiving ATC (plane talk)

x47c — Sat, 24 May 2014 17:12:06 GMT

NorthEasterner is correct
Strictly speaking you need a Radio Telephoney licence to be able for you as a person to use a RT set to transmit
(and you or someone needs a specific licence for the transmitter as well)
When doing a power pilots licence this will be done as part of the course and the test (theory/practical) will be just one more exam to pass.
You can still fly non radio (mostly vintage) aircraft for which you do not need to posses a RT licence.
I fall into that category of having a flying licence without a RT endorsement on it
There is another category of glider pilots who use a few designated frequencies which for historical reasons they are permitted to use without a licence.
This dates from the time when glider only radios were built.
Whether it is illegal now to operate a full band capable radio transmitter in the glider but restrict yourself voluntary to only the specific glider frequencies I've no idea.
It might be because you are using a full band radio set you need a RT licence to use it.
In any event pilot licencing is changing in 2015 with new Euro licences and I expect RT will become compulsory for all pilots of all grades regardless particularly as class G airspace (basically totally uncontrolled) is becoming rarer and the ability or requirement to contact some ATC unit at some point more common.
Post 911 I'm afraid the days of being able to bimble about over the UK keeping clear of controlled airspace and not bothering anyone are fast disappearing.
Note also that I think in 2017 all the airband is being modified such that the Channel spacing is changing from 25Khz down to 8.33Khz.. So a lot more stations will be able to be squeezed in the frequency range
This will mean a lot of new radios have to be purchased as the current ones go in steps of 25Khz and their frequency stability is probably not that good anyway - and a fully aviation grade approved and certified transmitter ain't cheap like £1500 plus of course the installation has to be done in an approved manner by an approved person and all signed off plus the installation licenced.