topic Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work? in Tech Help - Software/Hardware etc

WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 18:18:14 GMT

OK. so you have seen my previous posts and know I had some problems...
How about this one then...
Downloaded the latest version of Mint 11 DVD version .iso and burned it to a brand new DVD (specially bought a pack just for this job)...
Put the disc in.... eventually got the Mint 11 completed screen.... shut down, re-booted and get the Mint 11 screen with my name or other to login as...
so clicked on my name. and......... the page does NOTHING... no "password" box... click anywhere on the screen and NOTHING... can`t even shut down with the switch icon in the bottom right corner...
and yes. I did do all the usual setup of password protection during the installation..
I really do want to give Linux a try... but this (and other issues already mentioned) are beginning to put me off... so... any advice on how to get a brand new install working from page one?

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

MisterW — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 18:34:03 GMT

Did you check the MD5 signature on the ISO after downloading it ?
What the machine you are installing it on , sounds like it could possibly be a graphics problem...

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 18:49:16 GMT

Erm.... why should I need to check the MD5 signature after downloading from the Linux site? am I to assume that prior knowledge of this action is essential to ensure a clean download? or isn`t Linux supposed to be easy to download and install with just the minimum amount of computer knowledge... i.e. how to switch it on and off, and how to download and burn a DVD/CD move a few files about etc.
I have downloaded and installed Linux Mint 9 previously, without checking the MD5 signature, so I don`t see the relevance of the question..
the "machine" I am installing on , is the same one I used yesterday to try to get the wireless and the 2gb cruzer stick working ... it is a Dell Inspiron 2200 about 6 years old. with a 160 gb hdd and 2gb of ram.
there is nothing wrong with the graphics on the meachine... they work perfectly...
and incidentally, the login screen on Mint 9 worked perfectly only 1 hour before installing Mint 11, so cannot see how it "may" be a graphics problem...

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

ejs — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:01:03 GMT

Checking the MD5 or other hash value ensures the download did not get corrupted. It is also important to verify the media was burned successfully - the installer should have the option to check its own integrity, or burning software usually has an option to verify the media after writing it.
"graphics problem" was referring to problems with newer graphics drivers compared to those in Mint 9.
At the graphical login screen, you could try pressing Control+Alt+F2 to switch to a text-mode login, and then look for anything interesting from dmesg or in /var/log/messages. You could also see if pressing the caps lock key toggles the caps lock light on/off - sometimes when something badly crashes Linux, the mouse cursor still moves, but nothing else works.

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

MisterW — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:13:35 GMT

Thanks ejs, that about what I was going to say.
@shutter,It would appear that your Inspiron has the Intel Extreme Graphics(855) chipset. There have been ( and still are! ) lots of problems with that chipset and Linux. Its quite an old chipset and the support for it is getting flaky. There are a number of workarounds ( see here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/Lucidi8xxFreezes#Workarounds ) but none of them are simple I'm afraid.
I know you would like to try Linux but I'm thinking that the Inspiron is not going to be a good place to start...

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:22:13 GMT

Ah well, in view of the last from Mist W.. looks like a big bin is needed... room enough for the laptop, and plenty left for Linux .
Just re-installed it... and it is now shutting down and re-starting.. so we shall see...
Well well well.... this time it did the same as before... so I re-booted. and tried to login as "other"... used my name and my password ok. and I have a "home screen"
so how do I correct the login screen so it works properly with my name for login, instead of "other"..

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

MisterW — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:28:00 GMT

Quote
Just re-installed it... and it is now shutting down and re-starting.. so we shall see...

That's better news.

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:47:01 GMT

Right... the good news is... I can use the Linux Mint 11 OS... so long as I don`t want to use it with my wireless dongle, OR my 2gb cruzer memory stick.... Both of which are VITAL if I am to keep the OS on the laptop.
Just plugged the wireless dongle into my Windows Vista laptop, and it installed the drivers etc. and informed me that my "device is ready to use"... so there is nothing wrong with "the device" from that point of view... ( I have also used it on the Dell Inspiron 2200 with Windows XP and actually used it on the net... so again, it proves " the device" is OK to use...
The main reason for installing Mint 11 was to eliminate any problems with "old drivers" etc that Mint 9 might have had... so can we now re- start the assistance to try and get the Wirelss 3 G dongle on 3 recognised as such by Mint 11. and then I may be able to get it to connect on the net...
at the moment of plugging it into the USB slot, it shows as a CD DRIVE and also HUAWEI TF CARD storage....
the DMESG looks the same as before...
scsi 21:0.0.0 CD-Rom HUAWEI Mass Storage 2.31 PQ ; Ansi; 2
scsi 22:0.0.0. Direct Access HUAWEI TF Card Storage PQ ; Ansi; 2

Is there anything I can change.... (like in the windows registry - I know Linux doesnt have one) that can make it recognise the 3G stick as a wireless dongle?

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

MisterW — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:52:49 GMT

If the modem as a CD drive on the desktop , can you try 'right clicking' on it and selecting 'eject' . That often 'switches' it into modem mode. You may then see it recognised by Network Manager. If not we probably need to investigate usb-modeswitch to see if your dongle is handled by the version in Mint 11.

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

VileReynard — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 19:55:53 GMT

Try a different USB stick.
A 4GB stick can be had for a fiver.

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:04:22 GMT

Quote from: A
Try a different USB stick.

At the moment we are trying to get the "mobile wireless" 3G stick working....
@Mister W...
after the wireless dongle is plugged in it shows as a CD rom and The Huawei TF card.... the CDrom icon disappears after about 30 seconds.. so just plugged it in again, and right click on it... (before it disappears)... but no "eject" option is listed... (and by the time I had typed this the Icon had disappeared again)...
Typical... Eject = "safely remove Drive".... so I clicked on the icon and clicked on "safely remove drive" but nothing happened except the icon disappeared.... so I then right clicked on the Huaewi TF card and "safely remove drive" but it says....."UNABLE TO STOP DRIVE". error detaching; helper exited with exit code 1 detaching device /dev/sdb etc etc etc ending with STOP UNIT: FAILED no such file or directory

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

ejs — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:20:38 GMT

I don't suppose it works as a modem, and is listed as a device in NetworkManager, after the CD-ROM icon disappears?

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:29:12 GMT

No,.... that is the point... it will not show up as a network connection... as Linux sees it as a CD rom device.... or a memory card.... for some reason...

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:45:13 GMT

Just found this page......
< http://www.marengo-ltd.com/blog/?p=62 >
Can someone have a look at it, and see if it might be of use to me? IF So.... what do I do ? ? ?
thanks.

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

ejs — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:54:17 GMT

I was asking again in the hope that Linux might have switched the device into modem mode after the CD-ROM icon disappears. But it doesn't look like it has.
I suppose the next step is to try running the "usb_modeswitch" command manually in a terminal (needs to be run as root, probably). You might try:
usb_modeswitch -v 12d1 -p 1446
or:
usb_modeswitch -v 12d1 -p 1446 --huawei-mode

Quote from: shutter
Just found this page......
< http://www.marengo-ltd.com/blog/?p=62 >
Can someone have a look at it, and see if it might be of use to me? IF So.... what do I do ? ? ?
thanks.

That post dates from 2008, and won't help you if you can't get the hardware working as a modem.

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 20:57:14 GMT

Quote from: MisterW
If the modem as a CD drive on the desktop , can you try 'right clicking' on it and selecting 'eject' . That often 'switches' it into modem mode. You may then see it recognised by Network Manager. If not we probably need to investigate usb-modeswitch to see if your dongle is handled by the version in Mint 11.

Clutching at straws..... ! ! ! see my previous post re "marengo blog"...... but have also found this little gem with my Windows Vista laptop
Plugged in the wireless dongle... and it is recognised as drive F 3 Connect... if I click on that... then it lists the contents... (as normal) but one of them is
ResetDevice.exe now I wonder what would happen........ if I click on that... .......

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

ejs — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:13:43 GMT

You might also try adding "-P 1506" to either of the usb_modeswitch commands I suggested.
The only difference in the 12d1:1446 config file between usb-modeswitch-data 20110227 (which, as far as I can tell from http://packages.ubuntu.com, is what 11.04 has) and the latest (20110714), is that the id "1506" has been added to the TargetProductList.

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

Waldo — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:42:16 GMT

You could even try
sudo modprobe usbserial vendor=0x12d1 product=0x1446
though I'd expect running the usb_modeswitch command with the -v and -p (or even -V and -P) switches to be more likely to get it working.
Which particular model of dongle is it?

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

shutter — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 07:03:17 GMT

It`s a bit early in the morning for me, to start trying things... so, thanks for the help so far.... will see what time I have later, and try them then... will get back to you .........

Re: WHY? is it so hard to get Linux to work?

MisterW — Tue, 02 Aug 2011 07:44:55 GMT

Quote
Plugged in the wireless dongle... and it is recognised as drive F 3 Connect... if I click on that... then it lists the contents... (as normal) but one of them is
ResetDevice.exe now I wonder what would happen........ if I click on that... .......

That's basically how the device is made to work as a modem. When you first plug the device in, its detected as a CD ROM ( with an ID 0x12d1 0x1446 ). The CD is autorun by Windows, the drivers on it are installed and then the device is reset ( by the resetdevice.exe ). This causes it to disconnect from the USB bus, it then appears as a different device( with a different ID ) and is detected by the ( now installed ) windows drivers as a modem. Under Linux the same procedure needs to happen, unfortunately the windows software on the CD is no use, obviously!. So thats where usb-modeswitch comes in, it is run when the CD device is detected and then issues the correct command to reset it, sometimes its an eject. The device switches to its modem ID and is detected by the standard Linux modem drivers and is then seen and can be configured using Network manager.
In your case usb-modeswitch doesn't seem to be switching the device to a modem for some reason and that's basically why its not working.
We need to try and establish why modeswitch is not detecting it properly. As Waldo said , can you tell us what device it actually is ? as that may help to understand whats going wrong.
Hope that explains things a little more shutter, and when we've got this working! we'll get on to your USB memory stick cos that should work just fine as well.