topic Re: New subscriber woes in Plusnet Feedback

New subscriber woes

Origami — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:11:05 GMT

So PN, you didn't really get off to a great start. Let's hope things improve.

1. Setting-up the contract

I select 14th on the order form (I'm away from home 10th t0 14th).

You send me a message, "we've selected the 10th because it's better".

I call PN, better for whom? Please make it 14th, but PN say oh no no no it's been set at the 10th.

On 9th I plug-in the white router

On 10th a message saying the switch-over is started

Later on 10th the landline is switched

On 11th the broadband switch is starting, hang on PN what's this????

Later on 11th broadband is connected.

2. The router

Get home on 14th and find the router is a pile of junk and switch to a spare router I happen to have.

Dear PN, there was a saying, "the customer comes first". I guess that's not the case these days.

Re: New subscriber woes

jab1 — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:13:51 GMT

@Origami Can't really comment on point 1, but why is the Hub a 'pile of junk'?

Re: New subscriber woes

Origami — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:23:19 GMT

@jab1 Well here goes ....

Cannot manually set WiFi channel numbers, the automated thing selects poorly

Cannot select high numbers on 5GHz WiFi

Cannot name the two WiFi bands separately

Cannot work with my own DNS server

Cannot work with my own DHCP server

The logging doesn't provide anything like enough information

Too many settings either not accessible at all or restricted by the user interface

Re: New subscriber woes

jab1 — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:34:00 GMT

Taking your points in order:

(1) Are you sure you can't manually set them? As I never had a any PN Hubs, I can't confirm /deny this, but I would be surprised.

(2) As above - having used one, no comment.

(3) Why should you need to?

(4) & (5) In what way? - although I doubt many ISP supplied routers are capable of this

(6) From what I have seen, the Hub2 provides extensive logging - what exactly is missing?

(7) Which settings?

@Dan_the_Van Any comments?

Re: New subscriber woes

MisterW — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:40:18 GMT

Assuming were talking about a Hub 2 here

Cannot manually set WiFi channel numbers, the automated thing selects poorly

Pretty sure you can , dont have my Hub 2 connected at the moment to check

Cannot select high numbers on 5GHz WiFi

That's correct. Since 5ghz range is limited , its not normally a problem withadjacent networks

Cannot name the two WiFi bands separately

That is correct I'm afraid, but isnt usually a problem

Cannot work with my own DNS server

Yes you can, you can change the DNS servers that the Hub supplies to DHCP clients

Cannot work with my own DHCP server

Yes you can, you can disable the HUb 2's DHCP server and use your own. You need to make sure that your server gives the correct default gateway address ( the Hub 2's )

The logging doesn't provide anything like enough information

In what respect ?

Re: New subscriber woes

jab1 — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:42:55 GMT

Thanks @MisterW 👍

Re: New subscriber woes

Origami — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:48:12 GMT

@jab1 The channel selection offers 3 suggestions but you cannot overtype in the channel number box, you can only take one of the suggestions.

Two channel names because of temperamental things that seem to always want to select the wrong band, with different names I can configure them to the 5GHz band.

My prior ISP router (ZyXel) does many things that the hub2 doesn't, even my old Netgear WNDR3700v4 does more.

Logging - boot process and intrusion detection are skimpy and I didn't see (if it is there, then my error) how-to forward syslog to another computer. Unix allows rsyslog to be setup.

Re: New subscriber woes

jab1 — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:53:04 GMT

OK. I'll leave this to @MisterW though - he has much more experience of the kit.

Just one final thought though - you DON'T HAVE TO USE THE SUPPLIED equipment.

Re: New subscriber woes

Origami — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 11:57:38 GMT

@MisterW I need the 5GHz to go high because of other signals are quite strong and as most people leave them on default then they are on maximum width. As I sit in my upstairs study I can see 8 stacked on 36-48 and because of the construction of my property some of them are stronger than my own signal.

DNS/DHCP there's something odd happening and I haven't time to bung a probe on the LAN. The problems have gone away on my own router.

The majority of my devices are Unix.

Anyway, I do appreciate your comments. If I ever get the time I guess I could put it back but as it's stable now I'll let things be as all this turning things on and off has probably upset the DLM too.

Re: New subscriber woes

MisterW — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 12:00:38 GMT

The channel selection offers 3 suggestions but you cannot overtype in the channel number box, you can only take one of the suggestions.

I'd have to go and check that, unless anyone else has a Hub 2 running that they could check ?

Two channel names because of temperamental things that seem to always want to select the wrong band, with different names I can configure them to the 5GHz band.

We do see issues with some devices that are 2.4ghz only. The trick is to temporarily disable the 5ghz, connect the device and then reenable the 5ghz. That usually sorts it out.

My prior ISP router (ZyXel) does many things that the hub2 doesn't, even my old Netgear WNDR3700v4 does more.

Assuming neither of those is 'locked', then there's nothing preventing you using either of those. PN are happy for you to use your own router. I just recommend keeping the Hub 2 as a spare.

What model is the Zyxel ? a VMG 3925-B10C by any chance ?

The WNDR3400 is a router only IIRC. The Hub 2 can be switched to bridge mode to act as a modem if required.

Re: New subscriber woes

Origami — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 12:01:44 GMT

@MisterW Yes, you are quite right about the Netgear one. I used to stack it behind the Vodafone THG3000 and did all the tinkering on the Netgear side. The Netgear also has openWRT on it.

Re: New subscriber woes

RobPN — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 12:07:52 GMT

I've never used an ISP supplied router (my Hub2 is still sealed in its shrink-wrapped package), but what do you expect for free from a budget ISP contract?

Presumably the Hub2 serves its basic purpose of getting those who choose it connected to the Internet with a limited amount of bells and whistles thrown in, e.g. WiFi. There was a time when ISPs didn't supply routers and you had to buy your own, so my expectations wouldn't be too high for a freebie which is why I've always bought my own.

Edit: typo

Re: New subscriber woes

MisterW — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 12:08:04 GMT

I used to stack it behind the Vodafone THG3000 and did all the tinkering on the Netgear side.

@Origami in that case , just switch the Hub 2 to bridging mode. Connect the WNDR3400 WAN to a LAN port on the HUb 2 and configure the WNDR3400 WAN for PPPoE with your PLusnet credentials.

Re: New subscriber woes

Origami — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 12:15:02 GMT

@MisterW As I think I posted earlier, I have a modem-router plugged in and I'll let things alone for a while now.

I can see 54 down / 14 up which is about right for the distance to the green box.

Re: New subscriber woes

Baldrick1 — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 13:10:49 GMT

@MisterW wrote:

The channel selection offers 3 suggestions but you cannot overtype in the channel number box, you can only take one of the suggestions.

I'd have to go and check that, unless anyone else has a Hub 2 running that they could check ?

On the Hub 2 you only have the choice on the 2.4GHz band of channels 1, 6 and 11. On the 5Ghz band it's only 36, 40, 44 and 48.

Re: New subscriber woes

jab1 — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 13:15:27 GMT

Makes sense, on 2.4GHz anyway, as they are the only non-overlappping channels - don't know enough about 5GHz to comment.

Re: New subscriber woes

MisterW — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 13:16:44 GMT

@Baldrick1 thanks for that.

Re: New subscriber woes

Origami — Mon, 14 Aug 2023 13:28:56 GMT

@Baldrick1 Thank you.

Re: New subscriber woes

Townman — Mon, 16 Oct 2023 16:44:38 GMT

The 2.4GHz channels offered are the ones which ensure no cross channel overlaps and are thus considerate towards all other users. Why would you want to select a different channel which will cause issues for other users? Generally, being co resident on a channel is not that much of an issue. Bleeding over onto other channels is an inconvenience for both you and other users.

5GHz channels above 48 require the operation of DFS to avoid interference with military systems and other legacy users - see List of WLAN channels - Wikipedia

The 5GHz channel signals which are stronger than yours might well be down to a failure to implement TCP (power management) which is an additional requirement in the UK (and EU). Conversely the lower power seen on your WiFi channel could well be the correct operation of TCP in that only sufficient power is being transmitted as is essential to maintain a stable connection with clients connected to that SSID.

Such is not commonly understood, therefore limiting options enhances everyone's experience.

Re: New subscriber woes

Origami — Sat, 21 Oct 2023 22:27:14 GMT

Concerning the strength of neighbouring signals. The router is on the ground floor in a corner of the general floor plan and so is more sensitive to that side of the building. Some of the neighbours are on the other side of the building and can swamp my router. The optimal choices differ depending on where you are standing.
The 5GHz band is a mess with everything stacked on 36 so I chose to go up to 60 where it's clear. What is the point of the higher channels being licensed by Ofcom for use if nobody can make use of them.
My experience is different from another person's experience, so why should a "one size fits all" solution be provided as the default solution? Anyway it's immaterial now as I have replaced the router to one more suitable.