topic Re: Poor support following internet outage in Plusnet Feedback

Poor support following internet outage

briank — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 21:49:28 GMT

This morning (Sunday 26/06/2022) I lost my internet connection (Milton Keynes FTTP):-

Fibre modem 'LOS' red LED was on.

Adjacent power/battery module red 'FAULT' LED was on.

Router 'status' LED continuous orange.

I spoke to two neighbours who also use BT Openreach.

They reported the exact same problem.

I called Plusnet support.

The response was to arrange an engineer visit. Earliest slot - about 2 weeks!

Any idiot with half a brain would realise that if two neighbours had exactly the same problem, the fault was somewhere upstream in the network.

Instead I had to go through some idiotic fault reporting process that included answering questions about Covid etc.

The fault was eventully rectified around midday - no engineer visit required. I assume the fault was at the local exchange.

Plusnet need to sort out their fault handling process.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

briank — Mon, 27 Jun 2022 10:47:24 GMT

Interestingly, when my neighbour reported the fault to her broadband provider (I think it was either BT or Sky), she was told an Openreach engineer would investigate on Tuesday 28th June. That's a waiting time of just 2 days.

The earliest slot for an Openreach engineer visit I received from Plusnet was 8th July i.e. 12days.

Why does it take Plusnet almost 2 weeks to arrange a visit from Openreach? After all, both are owned by BT.

Two weeks is an unnaceptable time to be without an internet connection - especially when you have no copper landline and rely on VOIP.

Hardly in keeping with the 'We'll do you proud' advertising.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

jab1 — Mon, 27 Jun 2022 11:08:09 GMT

@briank You say in the opening post that your fault was rectified around midday Sunday without an engineer visit, but your neighbour was advised an engineer would call Tuesday. Is her connection also FTTP - I'm guessing yes, based on your location, and is it exactly the same fault?

Re: Poor support following internet outage

briank — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:30:36 GMT

My neighbour has exactly the same Openreach FTTP modem. It was displaying exactly the same fault indications as mine.

She called her broadband supplier an hour or so after I reported the problem to Plusnet.

Another neighbour who lives opposite uses BT as his supplier.

The same thing applies - same FTTP modem, same fault indication.

I assume a red LOS LED means Loss Of Signal?

All three of us found the problem was rectified around midday.

One of my neighbours later told me that the fault had affected much of Milton Keynes.

As I mentioned previously, it worries me that Plusnet can take up to two weeks to get a broadband problem investigated.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

pjmarsh — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 13:43:02 GMT

It would be Openreach which are telling Plusnet that an engineer visit is required and what the availability is for it. It may be that at the time when you reported the issue Openreach hadn't identified that there was a wider fault, or hadn't updated their systems to report the issue. By the time the others you spoke to reported it to their suppliers then Openreach had updated it with the new info, so that is what they were told. More than likely if they had reported it earlier and you had reported it a bit later, then they'd have been advised that they needed an engineer to visit, and you'd have been told that there was a known issue.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

briank — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:23:35 GMT

"t would be Openreach which are telling Plusnet that an engineer visit is required"

I disagree. It was the Plusnet advisor I spoke to that told me an Openreach visit was required. He did not consult with Opnreach in advance to determine if there was a wider network problem. This is part of what my complaint is about.

The second part of my complaint is the earliest Openreach visit slot given by Plusnet was two weeks away when my neighbour (who I think is with Sky) was told 2 days. Plusnet and Openreach are both part of BT. Sky is not.

MY Plusnet FTTP broadband has been very reliable until now, but if I am expected to be without an internet connection for up to two weeks in the event of a fault, it's making me think about switching to another supplier.

Maybe the ad should be changed to "Plusnet: We'll do you when we get round to it".

Re: Poor support following internet outage

briank — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:36:05 GMT

Also...

There was no follow up email apologizing for the loss of service.

No explanation about what the fault was.

The Customer Service operator I spoke to only seemed interested in going through security checks, telling me about the compensation scheme and asking whether anyone in the house had Covid. No attempt to diagose the problem, He didn't seem at all interested in the fault indicators on the modem or router or that two other neighbours has the same fault.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

jab1 — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 18:50:05 GMT

@briank You do not normally get an email apologising for loss of service, and quite often, even if a support ticket is raised, you don't get an explanation of the cause either.

It is possible the agent wasn't trained for FTTP, in which case he wouldn't know where to start, and as your neighbours were with different suppliers, their issues could have been different - they weren't but that only came to light later.

His other questions/replies are standard.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

briank — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:08:05 GMT

"It is possible the agent wasn't trained for FTTP"

Surely broadband providers should make sure their agents are trained to deal with fault reports efficiently and not just blindly go through a written list. The fact it was FTTP is irrelevant. If multiple cutomers in the same area have the same fault then it's pretty obvious that the root cause is not a fault with the equipment at a particular user premises but a problem further upstream in the network.

I would have thought that today's network diagnostics should be easily able to detect the fault location. Surely a 'Loss of signal' error can be detected by equipment at the local exchange? I would expect automatic alarms to be triggered in this situation. Since the fault was rectified after just afew hours, I suspect this probably was the case. The problem is that the system does not inform customers or their broadband suppliers of the outage.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

briank — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:18:54 GMT

I have given my feedback. It is up to Plusnet to decide whether 2 weeks without an internet connection is acceptable.

Customers may decide to go elsewhere.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

jab1 — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 19:22:34 GMT

@briank wrote:

I would have thought that today's network diagnostics should be easily able to detect the fault location. Surely a 'Loss of signal' error can be detected by equipment at the local exchange? I would expect automatic alarms to be triggered in this situation. Since the fault was rectified after just afew hours, I suspect this probably was the case. The problem is that the system does not inform customers or their broadband suppliers of the outage.

As I understand it, and I'm still learning, as FTTP is not available to me, and only very recently been made available to those PN customers who are able to get it, the network is set up to be self-monitoring, and to advise BT/OR control of issues.

It is true that ISPs and their customers are kept in the dark, but that is because BT/OR still behave like the Post Office Telephones of old, where the end-user (and ISPs) are regarded as a nuisance to be tolerated. If you want this to change, lobby your local MP to drag them into the 21st. century.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

Gandalf — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 20:14:31 GMT

Hi there,

I'm really sorry to see your FTTP connection stopped working and thanks for your feedback.

I've taken a look into this for you and I can see that when you phoned us, the adviser ran a test which showed "OR test has failed and Appointment Required. Resolution / Recommendation: Please report fault to BTW for OR investigation."

OR stands for OpenReach and BTW for BTWholesale. An "Appointment" would mean an engineer visit. In the interest of transparency, I'll attach the full testing below:

At the point of raising the fault, the adviser would've had to book an engineer, subject to engineer availability, because the supplier systems wouldn't have allowed them to go any further until this was done.

The fault was raised just after 9am on Sunday and we hadn't actually received any further update until mid-afternoon on Monday when we were advised that no appointment was required and there was a major service outage. The specific updates were "Fault associated with Openreach Proactive Infrastructure Event. Appointment not required."

When the fault was confirmed as resolved to us, it was simply passed back to us with no detail regarding what the issue was. If we knew the exact cause, we'd be happy to share it, but unfortunately we weren't informed of this.

I do however appreciate the worry caused after the first call you'd made by potentially how long you'd be offline.

I would say though that if it did come to that then you'd be eligible for compensation, because we're signed up to Ofcom's automatic compensation scheme. We go into more detail here > https://www.plus.net/help/legal/automatic-compensation/ and Ofcom have their own page too about this here > https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/costs-and-billing/automatic-compensation-need-know

I don't believe there's anything further that the adviser could've done, because there isn't really a supplier helpdesk we can contact to flag up a service outage where line tests aren't showing an outage.

Ultimately, if the adviser had tried to contact our suppliers, they likely would've turned them back, because our suppliers helpdesk aren't there for us to raise a fault, as we'd do that via the systems we're provided.

I do get that this doesn't always make for a good experience. Ideally line tests should've flagged the service outage when running the first test, but it looks like the outage wasn't fully logged by our suppliers at that point.

I've re-opened the support ticket on your account and raised a complaint, which you'll be able to view & respond to by going Here if you've got any further concerns or if you're happy to consider your complaint resolved.

Normally, I'd try to call you in the first instance, but I also appreciate not everyone likes a call late at night!

Re: Poor support following internet outage

Mustrum — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 20:29:50 GMT

Surprised the OP did not bother to get back to PN to cancel the fault once it was back up and working after such a short time.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

newagetraveller — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 09:48:37 GMT

Maybe the OP wasn't/isn't aware of cancelling a fault once rectified?

Rather than having a sneaky snipe at the customer it might be better to help them?

Re: Poor support following internet outage

Longliner — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 10:55:31 GMT

Many customers blame Plusnet for problems which are the responsibility of Openreach. Such snags are annoying but it's worth remembering that even if 500 customers have problems at one time there are 1.35 million that are happy. I myself have had excellent service and speeds without any outage in many years (though don't mention PN's billing process!)

If you feel that BT or perhaps one of the smaller ISPs can offer you a better service over the same equipment apart from the router then of course I would agree you should leave, and pay up to double the price. Though I doubt that any ISP could charge enough to employ sufficient advisers to supply the individual replies you seem to expect even though the staff are doing their best.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

Gandalf — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 14:50:11 GMT

Thanks again for your time on the phone Brian, it was good to speak with you.

I've dropped you an email, updating the ticket following our conversation, but feel free to get back to me here, if you have any further feedback as I do genuinely appreciate all feedback, or there's anything else you'd need help with.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

Townman — Thu, 21 Jul 2022 09:48:26 GMT

There is a strict process to be considered here: Plusnet can only advise what they are told by BT Openreach or BT Wholesale at the time that the fault is raised with their suppliers. Thereafter, updates can only be provided to Plusnet's customers when Plusnet's suppliers provide such updates to Plusnet. There will always be the first report being considered as a point fault until more reports in a locality suggest that the problem might be more wide spread.

I would hope that this issue did not escape the network's self diagnosis, but I'm not betting on it. Similarly if the issue was detected by such monitoring, I'd not bet on that information being communicated through to the fault reporting tools used by CP/ISP retailers, such as Plusnet et al.

If one is not happy with that reality then the change which is required is to the questionable service standards provided by BTw and BTOR to the CP/ISP industry. A retail division part of the BT group is not going to curry any favours here; to ensure a level playing field, all ISPs are supposed to be treat equally and at arm's length. That said over the years, there has been a deal of empirical evidence that suggests ISPs not part of the BT Group get priority repair services from BTOR / BTw so as to avoid any potential claim of bias in favour of BT Retail, EE or Plusnet CP/ISP services.

If you want better service from BTOR / BTw then lobby Offcom and your MP. Both of those bodies need to do much better with their service delivery. In the case cited here, it is quite incomprehensible that a pan-user situation was not detected on the first fault call. That suggests that the self monitoring diagnostics in the the FTTP infrastructure is not fit for purpose. If it were, BTOR / BTw would have been on the case before any ISP raised a fault report for an individual user ... and the issue should have been known about in the fault reporting system.

Too many people seek to place the blame on the CP/ISP because they are the party the end user pays for the service. There needs to be an awakening that the guilty parties are BTOR and BTw who are totally unaccountable for their failure to deliver acceptable service levels. The issue for BT Retail, EE and Plusnet is that squealing to the industry regulator (Ofcom) about the poor performance of your parent-supplier can only lead to a foreshortened career!

The right approach here is to bring about a major change in the BT Group - prohibit it being both network owner and services retailer. Separate BT Retail, EE and Plusnet retail divisions from the infrastructure and wholesale supply divisions in to completely distinct independent companies, so that they can have uninhibited access to Ofcoms' regulatory powers. Above all else, Plusnet needs to be returned to independence with control of its own destiny, but such is never likely to happen!

Re: Poor support following internet outage

jab1 — Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:36:42 GMT

@Townman wrote:

The right approach here is to bring about a major change in the BT Group - prohibit it being both network owner and services retailer. Separate BT Retail, EE and Plusnet retail divisions from the infrastructure and wholesale supply divisions in to completely distinct independent companies, so that they can have uninhibited access to Ofcoms' regulatory powers. Above all else, Plusnet needs to be returned to independence with control of its own destiny, but such is never likely to happen!

I totally agree with this, @Townman but to me, the exact opposite is happening - the EE/PN 'arms' are being shortened/dragged even further into the BT 'body'. For 'BT' read 'Post Office Telephones' - that is the ancient and unacceptable model they still work to.

Re: Poor support following internet outage

Baldrick1 — Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:15:22 GMT

@jab1

Have you ted this? https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/04/bt-group-turning-ee-into-its-flagship-brand-for-uk-consumers.html

Re: Poor support following internet outage

jab1 — Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:23:15 GMT

@Baldrick1 I have now read it, but in usual ISPReview style it doesn't say much (IMO) and doesn't answer the question of why the PN brand/arm is being dragged down to the level of 'BT/POT' in terms of customer support.