topic Re: Charges to 123 in Plusnet Feedback

Charges to 123

tharg12 — Wed, 19 May 2021 16:34:12 GMT

Got charged twice for making call to 123 on same day at same time 09:43 first call length of time 00:00:00 second call length of time 00:00:01 charged 50p for each call, according to Google it's for the speaking clock, who would call the speaking clock these days? anyway got £1 refunded after I explained I never made the calls, then found out through this forum that it has been going on for some time, BT engineers being the culprits, you would think by now Plusnet would have dealt with this instead of making customers having to phone in to complain. BT engineers should not interfere with phone numbers at the junction boxes that don't belong to their bill payers, stick to checking the line using BT customers numbers please.

Re: Charges to 123

jgb — Wed, 19 May 2021 18:37:51 GMT

It is BT Openreach engineers or their contractors that work a the boxes that are doing this. Openreach are responsible for maintenance of the BT Wholesale network that Plusnet and many other providers use at well as BT Retail. BT Openreach are a separate organisation from BT Retail who sell the broadband and phone packages to the public.

Re: Charges to 123

Anoush — Wed, 19 May 2021 19:00:16 GMT

It’s difficult for us to identify whether the charges incurred for calling 123 are legitimate or from an engineer. We’ll always look to refund them to you though if they are caused by an engineer and you tell us about it.

Could you possibly try following the steps here https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Account-Billing/Random-123-call-on-my-latest-bill/m-p/1691941/highlight/true#M45922 to report the engineer behaviour to Openreach for further investigation?

Re: Charges to 123

tharg12 — Wed, 19 May 2021 19:02:46 GMT

I honestly don't care if it's BT, BP, or ET no one has the right to use my telephone number without my permission and then expect me to pay for it, end off

Re: Charges to 123

tharg12 — Wed, 19 May 2021 19:34:40 GMT

Thanks for the reply Anoush, but leaving it to me too do the leg work is not the answer as your link proves this has been going on for some time and a cynical person may say that Plusnet aren't taking it seriously because if all their customers just pay then all those 50p go to Plusnet not BT. I have reported it and received a refund which is fine but I wonder how many people just don't bother. It is up to Plusnet to investigate this not their customers.

Kind regards,

A pound in my pocket is better than a pound in yours

Re: Charges to 123

Anoush — Wed, 19 May 2021 21:04:12 GMT

Totally get the frustration here. All we can do when these happen is report them to Openreach on a case by case basis in a similar fashion you can.

What they’ll likely do is email the engineer’s manager to feedback and educate to try to encourage the right behaviours moving forward.

I can assure you though this won’t be anything to do with taking your money as you’ve suggested.

Re: Charges to 123

tharg12 — Wed, 19 May 2021 21:23:21 GMT

Thanks Anoush, but I didn't suggest Plusnet were trying to take my money, I merely pointed out a cynical person may look on the fact Plusnet don't seem to be taking this seriously enough and are leaving their customers to follow it up rather than investigating it fully with BT themselves.

Regards

A pound in my pocket is better than a pound in yours.

Re: Charges to 123

Anoush — Wed, 19 May 2021 21:24:40 GMT

No problem although again all we can do is report these to Openreach on a case by case basis when they happen.

Re: Charges to 123

Mav — Wed, 19 May 2021 22:33:47 GMT

Moderator's note(s):

Thread moved from General Chat to Plusnet Feedback.

Re: Charges to 123

Townman — Thu, 20 May 2021 00:12:34 GMT

@tharg12 wrote:

... then all those 50p go to Plusnet not BT.

Nope!! The money goes to BT.

If the call is metered on the line, BT bills Plusnet and Plusnet bills the user.

There are unfortunately some engineers in BTOR who do not follow SPOs and they use (dial) 123 looking for a spare connected but unused spare circuit. Sometimes the circuit they use is not spare, but live and someone catches a rouge call. It has also been known that a bad joint on a circuit can give rise to rouge calls to 123 by simulated loop disconnect pulse dialling.

Re: Charges to 123

198kHz — Thu, 20 May 2021 05:23:18 GMT

@Anoush wrote:

It’s difficult for us to identify whether the charges incurred for calling 123 are legitimate or from an engineer.

Not really. To establish the time, a genuine call to the speaking clock requires at least 10 seconds. When rogue calls are reported on the forum, the times are one or two seconds - just enough for the engineer to establish that a line is 'live'.

Re: Charges to 123

Anoush — Thu, 20 May 2021 06:10:53 GMT

We can't be 100% certain though even if the calls are less than required length to hear the clock. We'd have to distinguish between someone ringing the clock then hanging up, and an engineer using the service to test a line. We wouldn't be able to assume it's incorrect and say apply a credit as it won't then be accurate.

If we're made aware it's incorrect we'll do all we can to put things right and feed it back.

Re: Charges to 123

MisterW — Thu, 20 May 2021 06:25:31 GMT

I would have thought that the simplest answer is for Openreach to either remove the service ( who actually uses it to get the time ? ) or stop charging for it

Re: Charges to 123

jab1 — Thu, 20 May 2021 06:39:12 GMT

Would it not be a good idea to hard-code the correct number for the engineers to use into the handsets?

Re: Charges to 123

198kHz — Thu, 20 May 2021 06:52:43 GMT

At the third stroke - precisely! @MisterW

As I'm ex-BT, I know this has been going on for decades, but has only entered the public consciousness since free fully itemised billing in the 90s.

With the advent of computer-issued 'tasks' to engineers, with time constraints and the constant push for more productivity, the problem isn't going to improve any time soon, whatever platitudes BT management come up with.

Australia had the right idea by closing the service in 2019.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/at-the-third-stroke-there-will-be-no-more-dial-up-talking-clock-20190418-p51ff8.html

Otherwise, as you say, make it non-chargeable - it must be small beer in BT's finances.

Re: Charges to 123

MisterW — Thu, 20 May 2021 07:59:47 GMT

What is disappointing (but not surprising!) is that OFCOM hasn't got involved and told OR to stop the practice or else... but then again does OFCOM ever actually do anything useful ?

Re: Charges to 123

tharg12 — Thu, 20 May 2021 10:50:31 GMT

Thanks MisterW, maybe OFCOM haven't done anything because they are not aware, but they soon will be. My first step is my local MSP, then trading standards, then OFCOM, then watch dog and I will keep going until someone does something about this, it's not the money it's the fact someone can use my private home number without my permission then charge me for the privilege and I have to explain to my ISP that I didn't make the calls, anywhere else you might say it's fraud.

Kind regards

A pound in my pocket is better than a pound in yours