topic Re: service with a snarl in Plusnet Feedback

service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 13:25:17 GMT

After repeated attempts to get a response to (perfectly civil) comments on my (ongoing) fault ticket, I got this:
"The speeds have lowered due to the line becoming erratic and we have changed the fault type with BT to investigate the intermittency as until this is resolved the speeds will continue to lower to try and resolve this issue."
Yes, exactly. And this is the fault that has occurred intermittently since at least last February, so why has nothing been done? I also got this sniffy response to my request for a premium service to match the premium price...
"As for the price you are paying you are on a legacy product from 3 refreshes ago so does cost more for less usage and can be changed at anytime through our website."
I now realise the fundamental mistake I've made; it's actually my fault for giving Plusnet too much money for a legacy product. The fact that I have looked into changing a number of times and find that the existing product offers better facilities can, presumably, be safely ignored, as can the fact that, although I'm paying for a premium product, as it's a "legacy product", civility and customer service don't matter.
Cheers Plusnet

Re: service with a snarl

jelv — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:10:08 GMT

It is important to make sure that the type of fault is correctly identified. If it is just reported as a failed connection the morons at BT will look at the connection logs and if you have once established a connection (even if it was at a pathetically slow speed) they will return it as no fault found. Reporting it as an intermittent fault (even if the problem is seen as the line being consistently slow) avoids that possibility of BT avoiding actually doing anything about it.
If you post some more details of the problems including the router stats (sync speed, attenuation and noise margin) and the results from the BT speed test there's a number of experienced users here who will be happy to help you get to the bottom of things.

Re: service with a snarl

orbrey — Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:51:49 GMT

Hi anthony,
I can see you've raised a number of faults since January last year though with gaps of several months between each one, and it seems from the tickets and responses that the issue has been resolved each time, for a period at least.
As regards compensation for the service, unfortunately there's very little we can do there as we don't get any reduction in the price we pay unless a line has not been working (and never connected at all) since the installation. If we were to offer compensation for faults we'd need to increase our subscription charge to cover this, which is something we're very reluctant to do.
With regard to your fault, this was passed back to BT this morning as an intermittent connection issue and I have just tested the line and passed this back to them for further investigation, we'll update the ticket when we hear back.

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:11:38 GMT

Hi jelv
Thanks for your kind offer of help.
Has now been 96 hours and download/upload speeds have got even worse, but there's been no update from Plusnet (surprise surprise, he spat bitterly)
I've attached two screenshots - one of the router stats and another of the latest BT Speedtest result.
I don't really understand what the router stats mean (but am keen to learn!); maybe you or somebody else could make some sense of them?
I have also attached a screenshot of some results posted on my ticket - again, gobbledegook to me but it may shed light...
Thanks again
Tony

Re: service with a snarl

jelv — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:01:41 GMT

That's weird!
The sync speed reported by the speed tester does not match the speed reported by your router. Have you reconnected between those two screen shots?

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:18:10 GMT

No - I never disconnect or turn off the router unless the connection has completely dropped for more than, say ten minutes.
We've got a lot of noise on the BT line and have had for weeks.
Have reported it to BT and they say it's probably caused by the Broadband connection so I need to disconnect that for a few days... but of course I can't because then the broadband fault can't be dealt with...
Here's the latest stats from the router, plus a Speedtest (still low) done a couple of minutes before attached as a screenshot.
DrayWeb
Router Web Configurator
> System Management> Online Status <<Main Menu
System Status
System Uptime: 552:7:22
LAN Status Primary DNS 212.159.6.10 Secondary DNS 212.159.6.9
IP Address TX Packets RX Packets
192.168.1.1 20562944 13280069

WAN Status GW IP Addr 195.166.128.101
Mode IP Address TX Packets TX Rate RX Packets RX Rate Up Time
PPPoA 84.92.155.19 2179 57 2815 48 0:28:37
ADSL Information (ADSL Firmware Version : 41e2be2c)
ATM Statistics TX Blocks RX Blocks Corrected Blocks Uncorrected Blocks
7084230 7084092 7176 8004
ADSL Status Mode State Up Speed Down Speed SNR Margin Loop Att.
G.DMT SHOWTIME 448000 4960000 13.0 22.0

Re: service with a snarl

pierre_pierre — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:30:25 GMT

you made a fatal mistake. When you get noise on the phone line, phone BT and get the operator to acknowledge the noise and whatever you do dont mention the internet, you are reporting a voice fault

Re: service with a snarl

jelv — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:35:21 GMT

Aaaaarrrrgggg!!!! The slimey b******s.
If you have got a noisy line there is absolutely no point whatsoever in investigating a broadband fault - broadband will be rubbish if the line is rubbish.
You need to plug a wired telephone in to the test socket inside the master socket without a filter or the router connected.
If that is still noisy* you must get the broadband fault cancelled and raise a voice fault with BT. If they mention broadband tell them it is still noisy using the handset only and don't let them fob you off.
If it is not noisy when you do that test it is very likely that you have a problem with either your internal wiring or your equipment. You'll have to do more testing putting things back one by one to see what causes the noise.
Test socket

* To listen to the line for noise you can dial 17070 and take option 2 - you should hear nothing.

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:51:09 GMT

Thanks people
Have made more progress in a couple of days in this Forum than in a couple of months with support!!

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:33:49 GMT

Thanks Jelv
Okay... plugged in a wired phone to the test socket through (having removed the microfilter) and dialled 17070>option#2.
No crackling.
Plugged it through each of four spare microfilters and got much crackling (cue much swearing, as two of them are brand new).
Now completely confused so decided to repeat test with just the phone in the text socket and... mucho mucho crackling!!
Have requested a call back from BT (massive queue for faults but at least they offer a facility for callback!) and won't even mention broadband... however I suspect it could be an intermittent fault as I don't use the BT line much for voice calls.
Why did nobody from Plusnet mention the voice fault possibility? I was completely bambooozled by BT's insistence that the problem lay with the broadband... they even said they'd tested the line

Re: service with a snarl

jelv — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:36:40 GMT

As a double check, have you got a second telephone handset you could test?

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:39:16 GMT

yes I have (somewhere). Will dig it out...

Re: service with a snarl

badwolf — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:46:32 GMT

Quote from: anthonytravis
Why did nobody from Plusnet mention the voice fault possibility?

What on earth does a voice fault have to do with your broadband supplier?

Re: service with a snarl

VileReynard — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:33:58 GMT

In reply #3 have a look at the attached files:-
Corrected blocks=3036
Uncorrected blocks=34155
You would expect these figures to be reversed.
Your router should be able to correct blocks with a small number of errors, but fail to correct blocks with many errors.
So it's a fair bet that that your router is seeing intermittent (serious) interference.

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:35:21 GMT

Quote from: badwolf
Quote from: anthonytravis
Why did nobody from Plusnet mention the voice fault possibility?

What on earth does a voice fault have to do with your broadband supplier?

Well I don't know. If I did I wouldn't have posted about it would I? I'm struggling with lack of knowledge and experience and posted here for help - which I have received from a number of people and am very grateful for.
For your information Badwolf, the noise on the line started after the latest bout of broadband problems and BT told me repeatedly that it was caused by my broadband connection...
oh yes...and it's a BT line
oh yes... and BT are Plusnet's supplier
...so, in my stupidity and naivety I guess that's probably what I thought it had to do with my broadband supplier - especially as none of the prescribed tests/diagnostics mention noise on the phone line as a possible cause.
But I know now, so will gratefully and humbly bow before your obviously superior knowledge and wisdom and offer my grovelling apologies for taking up the valuable and extensive time you obviously took in crafting such a finely-honed, witty and not-at-all condescending post.
So thank you, Badwolf, for contributing to the sum of human knowledge and making everybody's day that little bit brighter with your extremely constructive and helpful contribution... you are a pure embodiment of the spirit that makes peer-to-peer support forums so attractive to us lesser beings with less-than-perfect knowledge.

Re: service with a snarl

prichardson — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:06:49 GMT

In a nut shell, if there is noise on the line, the steps are as follows.
Disconnect all devices from the line including filters, phones, modems/routers, sky boxes and such. Attach a single (preferably corded) phone to the line. This test should be conducted from the master socket, which is the first socket the line attaches to where the line enters the property. You can usually identify it with the following link.
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/troubleshooting/test_socket.shtml
Lift the handset and dial a single digit to remove the dialtone. Do you hear the noise now?
If so, instantly report it to your voice line supplier. Advise it is noise and is not related to the broadband, given it is not physically connected. As them if they can hear the noise, if they say yes, ensure that they record in the notes they witnessed the noise (this may be useful at a later and obvious if it applies, time).
If the noise is not there, connect a filter and your modem and router at the same point as the phone, ensuring the phone is filtered. Again, lift the handset and dial a digit and listen for noise.
If you can hear the noise, swap the filter for an alternate one and try again. If you can still hear the noise, I recomend swapping the modem, but this is understandably harder (can you load one, purely for the purpose of a noise quality test?).
If you continue to hear noise, the modem/router/filter is faulty. If within warranty, raise a support request with the company you purchased them from (if this is us, raise a ticket and referance this forum post).
If there is no noise, the cause will either be other internal cabling of devices you attached within the first few steps.

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 10:53:15 GMT

Hi there and thank you for your help.
I plugged a wired phone into the test socket (I already had the master socket removed cover to connect the ADSL filter directly for the fault finding tests). The "quiet line test" still showed noise with no filters or other devices plugged in apart from the wired phone, which means, I think (hope), that the fault is in the BT wiring. So... I've booked a BT engineer for this Thursday (and hope I'm not going to find myself £120 + VAT lighter!)

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 10:58:15 GMT

Quote from: Taxisofevil
In reply #3 have a look at the attached files:-
Corrected blocks=3036
Uncorrected blocks=34155
You would expect these figures to be reversed.
Your router should be able to correct blocks with a small number of errors, but fail to correct blocks with many errors.
So it's a fair bet that that your router is seeing intermittent (serious) interference.

Hi there and thanks for this.
As I'm fairly new to all of this can I ask you to explain a little more?
Does this mean a fault with the modem/router (this is a new/aditional one I bought in order to eliminate the possibility that my existing one was causing the problems).
Or is it a line fault that the modem/router can't resolve?
Thanks again

Re: service with a snarl

VileReynard — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 14:19:00 GMT

If your line sends data, under broadly constant conditions:-
In a block each bit will have some (small) probability of being flipped - ie an error.
Provided the cause of the error is just noise or some random effect, then the chances of getting 2, 3, 4... etc errors are progressively smaller and smaller.
When a block is transmitted, extra data is sent which allows for a small number of errors to be corrected and a larger number of errors to be detected (but not corrected).
So your figures indicate that you are sending a small number of blocks with a few errors (probably normal),
and about ten times as many blocks, each containing many errors - perhaps these are sent under very bad conditions????
I would think that this could indicate random periods of interference...possibly...

Re: service with a snarl

anthonytravis — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:19:41 GMT

Thanks