topic Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1) in Plusnet Feedback

Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

TeeGee — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 18:54:35 GMT

I am reeling from a lively phonecall from my sister who has just realised (after moving house a year ago) that she is paying £17.49 a month for basic ADSL broadband from PN even before line rental is included.

A quick check on Uswitch shows quite a few cheaper deals including John Lewis who charge considerably less than that via Plusnet

It would seem a "no brainer" to move to JL, or am I missing something?

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

Gel — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 07:13:36 GMT

Seems she didn't shop around at outset; she needs to check when her current contract expires or she may be hit with penalty charge of course if she leaves.
Those of us in market 1 areas (laid down by OFCOM) pay the most and get the slowest service

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

Mav — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 07:42:48 GMT

Moderator's note:

Thread moved from Broadband to Plusnet Feedback.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

MasterOfReality — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 11:03:13 GMT

Hi @TeeGee,

Sorry to hear you were taken by surprise regarding this. Below is a bit of information that will hopefuly provide you with a better understanding of why this is the case;

Market areas are split into high or low cost:

Low cost - Market B (used to be referred to as markets 2 or 3)
Non-low cost - Market A (used to be referred to market 1)

Market areas are based on the number providers at the exchange for the area. For an area to classify as Market B (low cost), it must have three or more providers present (or forecast to be present).

If you wish to check their own market area, you do so here.

I hope this has helped.

Alisdair

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

SpendLessTime — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 11:10:54 GMT

@MasterOfReality

The Sam Knows database is out of date for markets, it evens use the old numeric marking system (which was changed way back in 2014).

A much better way is to use the BTW checker as it clearly list the exchange as A or B in the results. https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s_cid=ws_furls_adslchecker

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

ejs — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 16:43:10 GMT

I thought the whole system changed on the 1st of April this year. That appears to be when the new lower regulated Openreach prices for 40/10 FTTC started. I don't think Ofcom's Market A/B classification exists any more.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

SpendLessTime — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 19:17:04 GMT

@ejs

I think the market A & B are being looked at with a report due https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/06/ofcom-propose-deregulate-uk-wholesale-broadband-market.html and implementation will be schduled over the next 3 years. I cannot find the report from this review.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

ejs — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 19:36:53 GMT

They do the review every three years, not much point in them taking three years to implement the changes! It'll probably take Plusnet more than three years to change their pricing system between their high and low costs areas though.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2018/confirm-broadband-rules (obviously no-one cares about ADSL any more)

The different wholesale prices never even applied to WBC ADSL2+ and FTTC anyway.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

SpendLessTime — Fri, 13 Apr 2018 20:32:35 GMT

I didn't mean or even write that every change would take 3 years. The changes are phased in as fast as can be allowed but there is a window of 3 years. Although given that the review only has 3 real selling points, the time span to implement isn't going to be long. (Legal action by disgruntled companies notwithstanding)

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

TeeGee — Sat, 14 Apr 2018 18:32:19 GMT

After actually getting through to PN my sister finds out she is on a two year contract! Looks like the price for commiting yourself for two yoears is a ridiculously high price and a slow speed too. Have to say it is amazing how many peole don't think about broadband when moving house and assume it will be a similar deal to their previous home. Hey ho......

P S (for Alisdair C). Re your note I am fully aware of the situation - it was my sister who, like many others, was not. If JL can provided a similar service for less via PN then there is something very wrong with the system.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

Townman — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 07:29:51 GMT

There is a price increase in the pipe-line - this will give your sister a 30 day period to decided to exit the minimum term of the contract without penalty. However do note that if she swaps to a non-BTw provider (unlikely to be an option in Market A) then she would still face a £30 BTw cease charge.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

ejs — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 08:09:48 GMT

Actually @Townman, it's a £30 Plusnet cease charge. The BTWholesale cease charge is zero in Market A, as set by Ofcom. Somehow Plusnet manage to get away with having it both ways, blaming Ofcom or their suppliers for higher prices in Market A (even on services where this doesn't apply), while ignoring the zero cease fee in Market A.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

Townman — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 12:43:59 GMT

@ejs,

Are you stating that in a Market A area BTw makes no charge for switching to a LLU supplier (if one exists) NOR for disconnecting service altogether?

Frankly I cannot believe that BTw is capable of doing something so complex - one charge in one area and a different one in another, for doing the same job? If that is really the case, it just shows how much urine BTw is extracting from Market B customers (who far out number those in Market A). If they can do this for free in Market A, then surely they can do the same in Market B?

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

ejs — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:22:59 GMT

Ofcom decided that the BTWholesale cease fee for any service in Market A would be zero. I wasn't suggesting that BTWholesale decided to do it for free out of the goodness of their hearts, or that it somehow incurs them no costs at all in Market A areas. It's not so much that they can do it for free, it's that they've been forced not to charge anything for doing it by Ofcom.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

Townman — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 15:27:55 GMT

@ejs - thanks - I will go and ask some further questions.

Superuser citation

This topic has been cited by one of the Superusers; the purpose of which is to provide a note for information which might help to focus continued discussion (but might not result in a staff response).

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

TeeGee — Sun, 15 Apr 2018 19:31:35 GMT

Having started this topic for a minor rant (!) I have no idea what "cited by a super user" means. It does however seem rather more complicated than I first thought and all your comments and replies are much appreciated.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

MauriceC — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 14:28:54 GMT

@TeeGee wrote:

I have no idea what "cited by a super user" means.

It just means that one of the Superusers has raised the topic with the Plusnet management team to get a response. The flag being posted here is just to indicate that the problem has been noticed.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

Baldrick1 — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 11:33:29 GMT

The totally unjustified rip off charge levied on customers living in Market A areas is an ongoing sore to me. I have no confidence that the Superusers will get anywhere with raising it directly with Pluanet but I would love to be positively found to be wrong.

What it really needs is the likes of Martin Lewis on the case or perhaps the TV programme 'Rip Off Britain' to feature Plusnet.

I know, I should just go elsewhere.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

Townman — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 14:06:15 GMT

It all depends on how you look at matters. Market A classification is somewhat about Ofcom protecting consumers from BT Wholesale charging any old price they like in a geography where there is no alternative competition. There is no competition in such areas because it is not economic for competitors to move into such areas. See https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/06/ofcom-propose-deregulate-uk-wholesale-broadband-market.html

Regardless of who provides service to these areas, it is more expensive per connection than providing service in more densely populated areas where there is economy of scale. It you want to shout "rip off Britain" one could ask who is being ripped off here - the consumer or the provider - for I doubt that there is much in the way of profit to be had in Market A ... which is why they are Market A.

In every service you look at there is often a price differential related to geography - for example last time I looked, in North Cheshire, electricity is dearer than it is in central Manchester and reason given for that difference was the nature of the different distribution network.

The question I have taken to the SU discussion space is about clarity on cease charges in Market A, not Market A retail pricing.

Re: Postcode Pricing (Market 1)

Baldrick1 — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 14:53:11 GMT

@Townman

As I understand it, I have asked Plusnet for clarification but they will not answer the question and hence put me right, Plusnet pay their BT colleagues exactly the same to provide my fibre connection as people living in the town 5 miles down the road.

If this is not true then why is the additional costs explained in vague terms? I would really appreciate it if someone could explain where these extra costs come from, hence clearly justifying why Plusnet need to charge me more.

If it can be justified why am I always stonewalled or given an irrational answer?