topic Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive! in Plusnet Feedback

Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Townman — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 23:10:29 GMT

Performed a phone line test this evening (intermittent crackling) and was fairly impressed with the automated testing ... until I realised that the "this will take a while" message was going nowhere. I then checked the BB connection only to find there was none.

After the connection was restored the test screen reported

Oops, something seems to have gone wrong

Indeed it did! There is no evidence (visible to me) in my tickets that the test was run ... and failed as does happen with BB testing.

The phone line test advises users to not use the phone - it does not explicitly indicate that this is an intrusive test which will impact broadband operation.

Given that broadband operation is impacted then the test can never report completion successfully to the user. May be there should be an instruction to run the test via a different connection - e.g. a mobile phone.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Gandalf — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 10:17:43 GMT

Thanks for flagging that up, I'll pass the feedback on to the relevant team.

As for the message you receive at the end of the test, I believe that you'll get that regardless of the test result even if you completed the test on a different connection. That's something I think is already flagged and being looked into.

Anoush

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Townman — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:07:29 GMT

What does that imply for the effectiveness of the auto test? Does it actually report a result to anywhere?

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Gandalf — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:39:12 GMT

If the line test detects an external issue, it will report the fault to Openreach and raise an open ticket on the account for our faults team to follow-up after the initial response time.

If the line test detects no issue or an issue that requires an appointment, nothing will happen.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Townman — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:44:57 GMT

So if the latter condition arises one just gets the "Ooops" message?

If that's the case as an expedient improvement can a message be added to to say something along the lines of "The automated testing did not find an issue which could be automatically reported to BT. Please contact support for further information as an appointment might be required.".

In the meantime I'll return to my intermittent crackling line next week.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

bobpullen — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:34:46 GMT

I'm not convinced that error should ever be seen, irrespective of the outcome. Also not convinced the testing is intrusive as far as the BB connection is concerned, although I could be wrong.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

MatthewWheeler — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 18:38:32 GMT

I may be wrong but I believe the test is intrusive on ADSL but not FTTC.

I'll see if it drops mine when I go home although ideally I don't want to kill my 95 day+ connection

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Townman — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:29:13 GMT

Neither did I - it might not be intended to be intrusive, but it did kill my session.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Gandalf — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:32:44 GMT

Unless I'm mistaken, the phone troubleshooter runs the same line test that we run in WLR3 [staff reference] and usually always drops the ADSL connection. Occasionally, it can drop an FTTC connection.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Townman — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 06:23:04 GMT

In which case how is the test page supposed to 'pick up' again after restoration of the connection (if it does reconnect)?

Assuming it can 'pick-up' again would a change in IP address impact the operation? I'm thinking of session states here.

Should there be a recommendation that this customer test is NOT run over a connection which is using the phone line being tested?

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Gandalf — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 07:21:20 GMT

In my experience, I *think* once a line test has begun, it will complete even if the test is cancelled or interrupted part way through.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Townman — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 07:54:00 GMT

How do we find out (for sure) what does happen and see if the user experience can be improved?

My perception / understanding is that...

1. The test broke the broadband connection

2. After a long delay seeing "This might take sometime" I see a failure message

3. The failure message can also mean a fault was detected which requires an appointment and therefore contact with support

4. Only if an external fault is identified will a ticket be raised - otherwise no footprint is recorded of the test

At the very least I suggest that the "error" message could be improved to indicate that a fault requiring an appointment was identified.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

bobpullen — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:09:14 GMT

I be 100% sure what the troubleshooter is designed to do without investing a bit of time looking into it.

One thing I am certain of though, is the fact that the non-descript error messages are *not* intentional.

This thread is relevant (and the one linked there-in), where @PlusnetLiam seemed to show an interest?

I'm of the opinion something is broken, rather than there being a design omission e.g. I have just run a no dial-tone test on my own fibre circuit and received the 'Oops, something seems to have gone wrong' error. My PPP connectivity remained uninterrupted throughout and there's zero audit trail/tickets raised on my account.

Having said that, it's not out of the question that the different tests might return different results:

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

PlusnetLiam — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:16:54 GMT

Hi guys - cheers for flagging up @bobpullen

I'm very interested in the performance of this piece of kit & have been investigating it with our tech teams for a while as had a hunch it's not been doing what it should.

Any examples that I can pass to them would be appreciated but I do believe this (and the BB Fault Checker) needs some work and would feed in to the project I mentioned before about a consolidated Troubleshooter.

Liam

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

bobpullen — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:19:24 GMT

@PlusnetLiam, it definitely used to work up until fairly recently. In fact, I don't think I've ever known there to be problems with it (it's historically been one of the better self-serve tools we have).

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

PlusnetLiam — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:21:26 GMT

@bobpullen I've heard whispers of some issues in the past but you're right, nothing massive.

RE the point @Townman has raised I don't believe it's designed to work in that way & shouldn't impact BB connectivity (or at least no one has ever flagged that...)

Let me see if someone can dig into it.

Liam

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Chris — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:00:09 GMT

Running a copper line test or intrusive KBD will often cause the line to drop, I have seen on 20CN lines this doesn't happen and FTTC doesn't drop them either but on 21CN this does kick most times.

The phone troubleshooter we can easily test, just need a 21CN line and a willing person.

*edit*

Running a phone line test for a noisy line does drop the connection based on our sample test of 1 person.

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Townman — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:49 GMT

If you need help / a line to test then please use mine if it helps.

I suggest there are a number of angles here...

Is the phone test supposed to be non-intrusive?

If it cannot be assured to be non-intrusive then users need to be warned at the time of starting the test.

If intrusion is unavoidable the test needs to be assured that it can pick up the user dialogue when the BB link is restored - IRRESPECTIVE of the possibility that the IP address might have changed.

Whatever the outcome there ought to be a traceable footprint (ticket?) indicating that a test was attempted.

Sorry if I've opened a can of worms ... again!

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

PlusnetLiam — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:35:20 GMT

You're not sorry in the slightest Kevin

I've raised it & I've also asked my Analytics team to see what data we have on these - to be frank, I think the answer will be very little but we'll see.

Can't promise an action or update immediately but will keep pushing it through to see what's happening - it's inherited capability so may take a bit of digging.

Cheers!

Re: Phone line tester does not warn users that the test is intrusive!

Townman — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:07:05 GMT

Liam,

I'm sorry that is me who keeps finding these issues - it might make me seem like a pain - again. It rather appears that I just keep finding issues for you guys rather than solutions. You've got enough to address without the additions I champion!

Cheers, Kevin