topic Re: Plusnet pricing in Plusnet Feedback

Plusnet pricing

corringham — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:29:51 GMT

Just a moan about non "low-cost" areas really.

I'm bombarded with adverts for Plusnet broadband (online, printed, and TV) offering competitively priced broadband.

However, I'm in a "hugely-inflated-cost area", so instead of Unlimited Broadband for £18.99 I can get ADSL Max for £36.48, or after contacting support I can get a special £9.99 off for a 12 month contract, making it "only" £26.49. That is 40% extra with discount or 92% extra without.

However, in order to get a half-usable upload rate I have to pay an extra £7.80 for ADSL Max Premium.

Now I don't mind paying extra for better speeds (especially upload) - I'm probably going down the leased line route, so my costs will rise significantly (more than an order of magnitude), but I'll get a usable connection.

My moan is that Plusnet's adverts are like a restaurant with an advert for juicy steak dinner for £18.99, but when I go in they say sorry YOU can't have the steak dinner, but as a special offer you can have a stale cheese sandwich for £26, and if you want pickle on that it will be an extra £7.80.

Not very appetizing is it?

Re: Plusnet pricing

rongtw — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:39:58 GMT

I agree , PN and BT should do away with non low cost area,s and have one simple price no matter where you live !!

Re: Plusnet pricing

Townman — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 06:36:00 GMT

It's an Ofcom pricing model. Go complain to Sharon White.

Re: Plusnet pricing

chenks76 — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 07:58:36 GMT

@rongtw wrote:

I agree , PN and BT should do away with non low cost area,s and have one simple price no matter where you live !!

i'm not sure i agree.
why should someone who lives in a heavily populated area with infrastructure all over the place pay the same as someone who lives in the middle of a field with nothing around them for miles?

the cost to supply and maintain the service to that field is clearly more than the heavily populated area.

Re: Plusnet pricing

rongtw — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:23:54 GMT

@chenks76 yes but why should someone who lives in the countryside be penalised

Re: Plusnet pricing

chenks76 — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:43:20 GMT

it's not being penalised if the cost to supply the service is more.
it's only being penalised if you are being charged more than what it actaully costs to supply the service.

and my suggestions is that it does cost more to supply the service to there, thus you pay more.

Re: Plusnet pricing

Townman — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 08:38:37 GMT

Look at it this way - in some areas the price is discounted.

Re: Plusnet pricing

rongtw — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 10:38:07 GMT

if you look at Gas and Electricity as a analogy , they don't charge more for rural supplies even though the pipes and wires are longer , neither do they discount prices for city's .

Re: Plusnet pricing

corringham — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 10:47:00 GMT

my suggestions is that it does cost more to supply the service to there, thus you pay more.

I'm not at all convinced it does cost more. ADSL Max has been installed since 2006, so the cost should have been amortized by now. The lines don't need much in the way of maintenance - I've had one outage in 3 years, which was caused by an OR engineer disconnecting my line at the exchange.

I do accept that Plusnet have to pay the Ofcom decreed wholesale price, but they also have costs in low-cost areas which they choose to ignore when offering low cost broadband in those areas. In the low cost areas Plusnet have made an investment in their network - in the non-low cost areas they haven't invested a penny.

Re: Plusnet pricing

chenks76 — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:02:55 GMT

@rongtw wrote:

if you look at Gas and Electricity as a analogy , they don't charge more for rural supplies even though the pipes and wires are longer , neither do they discount prices for city's .

ask them to install gas to your property in the middle of nowhere though and see what they charge you to install.

Re: Plusnet pricing

Townman — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 11:05:14 GMT

I think you will find that energy (and water) prices do vary across the country according to geography, only the different costs are spread over a much wider area.

Re: Plusnet pricing

ejs — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:08:45 GMT

@Townman wrote:

It's an Ofcom pricing model. Go complain to Sharon White.

I think the price controls only apply to 20CN ADSL1.

I think Plusnet have no excuse for charging different prices for FTTC in different areas.

Re: Plusnet pricing

corringham — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:30:22 GMT

I think Plusnet have no excuse for charging different prices for FTTC in different areas.

I suspect that Plusnet would justify the extra cost by the fact that they have no infrastructure of their own in non low-cost areas so they have to pay BTW for backhaul.

My view of that is that they have chosen not to make any investment in the high-cost areas, so although their ongoing costs are higher they have no capital outlay to recover. So they pass their costs on to the customers, comfortable in the knowledge that they will never have to invest a penny, and they can blame Ofcom for the price they charge.

The Ofcom model is intended to ensure that it is profitable for ISPs to make an investment to add their own LLU/backhaul. But it is obvious that that will never happen in the remaining high-cost areas, and the Ofcom pricing is reinforcing the ISPs reluctance to invest. The BDUK spending model is actually making it worse - by only tackling the most "profitable" areas, making the remaining not-spots even less interesting for commercial companies.

Re: Plusnet pricing

Oldjim — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:36:07 GMT

Plusnet don't have any infrastructure of their own so that point isn't relevant

Re: Plusnet pricing

corringham — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 12:31:18 GMT

Plusnet don't have any infrastructure of their own

Which maybe makes it even worse - Plusnet have to pay wholesale costs in low-cost areas, but choose not to charge those to customers, while they do charge their wholesale costs to customers in non-low-cost areas.

Re: Plusnet pricing

ejs — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 12:45:58 GMT

Plusnet won't be taking any prices they charge to their customers straight off a wholesale price list.

I also think it's very unlikely that Plusnet will be making a loss on all their customers in the low-cost areas, which must be about 90% of their customers.

Re: Plusnet pricing

corringham — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 12:53:03 GMT

it's very unlikely that Plusnet will be making a loss on all their customers in the low-cost areas

And yet they give free broadband in those areas - there is no charge for broadband, just the £18.99 land line charge. So the land-line is subsidizing the broadband.

Re: Plusnet pricing

Oldjim — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 12:55:44 GMT

I am a bit unclear about this as stated here http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/06/ofcom-propose-deregulate-uk-wholesale-broadband-market.html as published on June 22nd 2017 and certainly any changes won't have taken effect yet

Ofcom’s Proposal for Market A

We are proposing an SMP obligation requiring BT to provide network access on reasonable request and on fair and reasonable terms, conditions and charges. In considering what fair and reasonable means in relation to charges, we would expect to assess this on the basis that charges were not set at such a level so as to not constitute a price squeeze.

In addition, we propose that BT provide access in accordance with such terms, conditions and charges as Ofcom may from time to time direct and comply with any direction Ofcom might make under this condition. We consider that it is appropriate for this SMP condition to include the power for Ofcom to make directions in order that we can secure the supply of services and, where appropriate, fairness and reasonableness in the terms, conditions and, charges of network access. The proposed condition includes a requirement for the dominant provider to comply with any such direction(s), so any contravention of a direction would constitute a contravention of the condition itself and would therefore be subject to enforcement action under sections 94-104 of the Act.

We envisage that this obligation would apply to all WBA services in Market A whether supplied using ADSL/copper or VDSL/fibre [FTTC] services. In practice, however, these requirements will largely apply to copper WBA products as there are limited handover points for fibre services within Market A

Re: Plusnet pricing

ejs — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:00:55 GMT

Would it make much difference if they said there's no line rental, but the broadband price is now £18.99 (for the first however many months)?

Plusnet probably make very little profit from their non-landline customers, even with the extra £2.50, most other providers probably don't even do separate broadband with your phone with someone else. All the costs/profit being moved into the "line rental" element is not unique to Plusnet.

Re: Plusnet pricing

corringham — Sat, 15 Jul 2017 13:38:18 GMT

Plusnet probably make very little profit from their non-landline customers, even with the extra £2.50, most other providers probably don't even do separate broadband with your phone with someone else.

In non-low-cost areas Plusnet broadband without line rental starts from £20.99 per month - that's 50% more than a low-cost area! That's pretty much the same thing as not doing separate broadband.

It is also £2 more than Plusnet charge for line rental + broadband in low cost areas. Also it is more than John Lewis charge for their line rental + broadband package.