topic Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added? in Plusnet Feedback

Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Gregg — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:41:55 GMT

Networks are usually full duplex. Well at least networks from this century. There is no cost associated with network equipment being used, outside of running costs like electricity and rack costs. The more bandwidth that goes through a network device does not cost any more money. It could be argued that more bandwidth leads to more electricity being used and more cost. I think though the increase in cost associated with idle network equipment and used network equipment would be negligible. Thus there is no actual cost associated with using bandwidth. That being said, why would an ISP limit upload capacity for their customers? Do they not have sufficient bandwidth on their network devices? If so why limit only upload? Is it the copper that can't handle the upload? I have managed to get 2mbyte a second out of it many times.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Anoush — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:50:41 GMT

If you're referring to the upstream cap on the 40/2 package, it's more of it's the wholesale product that's capping the speed rather than a bandwidth issue.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Gregg — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:13:39 GMT

Wholesale? Why does the wholesale dictate the bandwidth that you can offer? How does that make sense? Do they sell the package to begin with and you just pass it on? That seems very anti competitive. Does plusnet ever try to understand why they would essentially force them to pass on an offering that reduced customer performance? Surely you have asked the wholesale this question? Why have they limited upload on their offering exactly?

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Anoush — Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:18:07 GMT

There are various wholesale packages we can order from BT. For example, 40/2, 40/10, 55/10 and 80/20. The two that we offer are 40/2 and 80/20; Unlimited Fibre and Unlimited Fibre Extra respectively.

The wholesale product determines the sync speed.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

rongtw — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 07:02:59 GMT

As PN has had several complaints about the upload Cap !! Surely this shows that customers would prefer the 40/10 offer !!

Just because Talk Talk offers 40/2 as basic fiber why do PN have to follow , i am sure i read somewhere the cost difference to PN is only £1 .

So 40/2 was offered by PN to save money

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

ScottStorey — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 09:36:50 GMT

Plusnet follows talk talk as it is there to compete with talk talk.

It's a mass market ISP and the focus is on cost.

If they were to offer 40/10 at the same price as talk talk offer 40/2 profit margins would be lower. If they offered 40/10 at a more expensive price they wouldn't be competing with talk talk.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

rongtw — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:12:47 GMT

So PN are just being Lemmings following all ISP.

When i first joined PN stood out above the rest ,But now they just want to be another cheap ISP << NOWT special

where did Management go wrong

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

nadger — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:39:10 GMT

When I first got broadband in March 2002 it was really a choice between Pipex or Plusnet.

For various reasons I chose Pipex but switched to PN in July 2007 after Pipex was sold for 2nd time.

My requirements are fairly simple so running unlimited fibre ( 40/2) does everything I need at price I'm prepared to pay.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

newagetraveller — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 10:50:24 GMT

"My requirements are fairly simple so running unlimited fibre ( 40/2) does everything I need at price I'm prepared to pay."

Me too, but for a lot of customers the 2 up limit is no good for them. If they want/need a higher upload and their line is only capable of, say, 50 down, then the 80/20 package is a waste of money for them. So a slightly higher cost for 40/10 or even 55/10 would be advantageous to those customers and I'm sure PN would have no trouble selling one or both those packages alongside what they offer at the moment.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Strat — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 11:03:33 GMT

@rongtw wrote:

So PN are just being Lemmings following all ISP.

Tesco are cutting prices to meet the challenges from the likes of Lidl and Aldi.

In the ISP industry you either compete with the big players or you go niche.

Plusnet have made their choice.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

DS — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:30:10 GMT

My only comments regarding the subject heading are as follows:

Being a recent newbie to PN, during the sales calls we discussed speeds, fair enough as this is important to most of us, though I prefer stability over speed.

My upload speed with my previous supplier of 2 years (Sky) on their standard LLU adsl connection was around 1.5+Mbps, which served our needs - gaming, streaming, general browsing etc (and all at the same time without any issues). During my time with them, I admit I'd taken my eye off the ball in terms of what ISP was offering what speed and at what price.

We only wanted adsl with PN (cost reasons only) but couldn't have this because we also opted for their TV too, thus HAD to have fibre. I'm also an all or nothing person - so landline phone, BB and TV would be with one ISP. (Moving 6 mobiles might be an option too, but we'll make that decision and hope nobody starts calling offering this service ). I know that during the sales pitch (spread out across 3 or so calls - I'm disabled and need time to think things through) the fibre extra would have been mentioned (I know a static IP was - but we don't need one).

Now I can only physically achieve around 29Mbps d/l which was certainly faster than the 17+Mbps d/l we migrated from, but having read around many forum posts since joining I'm not so sure we made the right decision in who to go with.

I also believe that BTw potential speeds are wildly inaccurate and by now they know just how fast most of the individual lines can go and how much they can physically handle. For the purpose of this reply, it states I can get up to 6.8Mbps u/l.

Some of us out there (myself included) discuss loyalty across multiple ISP run forums and that no ISP seems keen to retain existing customers when it comes to contract renewal time. That's the only reason for moving from Sky - the cost was going to jumped by an additional £20 pm and it finished in a stale mate.

I do find it very hard to praise Sky as I was (prior to switching to them from BT) very much against them (to the point of hating this empire) and since leaving no longer recommend them (Mr M buying back is another debate and not for here). However, without pointing to the actual thread, I read a thread where an existing customer was looking at renewing their contract but was concerned about their existing speed would be dropping to the 'new' 40/2 fibre package. I was genuinely surprised to then read that they have been told that they should be able to retain their existing speed and I am truly happy to read that this could be the case.

However, this could also be off putting to other newbies that have been capped at 2Mbps u/l, plus those that have renewed and assumed that 40/2 was all that was on the cards (I did also read the renewing customers could ask for the 40/10 deal, though asking does not mean they'll get it). It may also put other potential customers off if they read several posts in advance.

I'm all for everyone getting a good price for any service, though on the other hand a tad cheesed off that others can be put on a good upload speed. I may not need the upload speed, but it's good to know it's there, just in case. If I had a choice, I would certainly (and purely because PN told me I had to) have liked to have been given an option of going on a 40/10 fibre contract coz ya get what you pay for!!! (or should do imho)

I feel that PN have missed the boat on this one..................

Plus as a BT owned company, up to 10Mbps is available but PN, though they opted for their current fibre options. They could and possibly should have covered all the bases.

(I would say that my connection speed falls in to the average speed across the country -- what I have written could be wrong but it's my belief and opinion -- I certainly do not mean to cause offense -- this should not be read as a spitting his dummy out the pram type of post -- I hope this doesn't create an argument as it certainly wasn't my intention)

Phew, off to a darkened room

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

rongtw — Thu, 19 Jan 2017 18:46:59 GMT

At the moment with present trends ,although people may say they happy with 2 upload , as we become a more connected society the upload needed will increase .

as a Gamer yes a old one 2mg is rubbish , on lots of web pages they will tell you optimum upload for a good game experience is 5mg at least .

PN may have indeed missed the boat here, there are loads of gamers out there who search for a decent ISP with good upload speed , and the upcoming generation of young gamers with newer hardware will be unable to find what they want

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Andrue — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 16:41:53 GMT

Whilst I see nothing wrong in asking PN if they have plans to offer different packages 'having a go at them' is pointless and rather silly. PN are offering the products they wish to offer. If you want a different product go to another provider. No-one is forcing you to buy a service from PN, other providers exist.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Gregg — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 17:38:08 GMT

Still not had an actual answer. Why has the wholesale reduced the upload bandwidth?

It was going fine with the 80/20 and 40/20 service that had been offered since vDSL was brought to the UK.

What made them think that reducing the service that they are offering for the same price is a good solution? Is it simply to milk the customers out of as much as they can, squeeze as many customers on to as little bandwidth that they can get away with? Great business model.

In a time when people and businesses are hoping for faster services, UK ISP are reducing the bandwidth on their service. While other countries like Holland for example, have offered real fiber not just fake fiber VDSL, for years and at 300mbit full duplex.

Welcome to 2017, UK = 2mbit on VDSL, slower than ADSL upload hahahahah

Holland 500mbit full duplex 40 euro a month.

https://www.caiway.nl/site/nl/pakketten/alles-in-1-glas-pakketten/alles-in-1-glas-g500

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Oldjim — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 17:43:24 GMT

Still not had an actual answer. Why has the wholesale reduced the upload bandwidth?

That is because they haven't

The offerings from BT Openreach (not Wholesale) are 40/2, 40/10, 55/10, 80/20

There never was a 40/20 that was a Plusnet limited 80/20

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Anoush — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 18:05:36 GMT

Yeah, the 40/20 product that I believe 55/10 customers were provisioned on was pretty much the wholesale 80/20 capped to 40 by our systems.

The 40/2 product for Unlimited Fibre on isn't a bandwidth problem. It's the product that we're selling to our customers.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

ScottStorey — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 18:15:56 GMT

What game requires a 5Mb upload? I can't think of anything that requires that. Most games you could run quite happily on a 3Mb ADSL connection with 0.3 upload.

The main issue is downloading patches with how big they are these days.

2Mbit is faster upload than the fastest uncapped ADSL.

Games need a lot less bandwidth than people think they need.

The 40/20 plusnet product was just the 80/20 wholesale product capped on plusnets end. 55/10 is a different wholesale product that came out later.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Gregg — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 19:26:09 GMT

Ok so then it wasn't in fact a wholesale that reduced the bandwidth it was Plusnet that decided to end their 40/20 and move their customers on to 55/10 package instead. Fine, why did they decide to do that then? Surely in terms of competition they were at an advantage over the competition because they offered a better package? Now they just offer the same as everyone else....

Plus the big issue has been that people that went from 40/20 to 55/10 often ended up with lower syncs for both download and upload than they had prior to the change.

Just makes no sense to me why they would want to lower their packages. I am still waiting for them to lower the 80/20 to 80/2 mbit....

Plus since the change my 80/20 is more like 55/15 if i am lucky and i am sure many others who don't take the time to moan about it out there and that is not a line restriction because I have got 80/20 on this line before... So just a lack of bandwidth available in general and over subscription.

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

Oldjim — Fri, 20 Jan 2017 19:32:24 GMT

It is nothing to do with bandwidth restriction it was reducing costs as 40/20 costs Plusnet the same as 80/20 and 55/10 is cheaper

Re: Why were the new restrictions on upload added?

rongtw — Sat, 21 Jan 2017 08:02:17 GMT

@ScottStorey people would be surprised how modern games use the internet , i play BF4/ BF1 but then i also run Teamspeak , BF1 now also requires connection to EA cloud for the game .

But then like most households i have a smart TV connected , A tablet , Laptop , 2 phones , and son on his PS4 with VoIP

The point is one individual connection may not max your 2 upload , but all together well we can just wait and see