topic Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain in Plusnet Feedback

My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 21:31:35 GMT

My new service was meant to go live on the 13th of Jan, it actually went live on the 14th, great start.
Day 1:
Down: 20403 @ 6.1db
Up: 1276 @ 6.1db
Ping: 35
I was relatively happy with those numbers to be honest, but I'm sure that you can imagine the decline in-between.
Day 6: (Contract Cancelled)
Down: 6652 @ 17.2db
Up: 888 @ 16.5db
Ping: 258
What I've learnt, phoning Plusnet customer support get's you fed lies, false promises, and almost guarantees that your connection will be worse than before you make the call, I would even go as far as to say that my connection was being deliberately sabotaged with malicious intent, I could even see the stats dropping/changing while I was on the phone to them, well I'm having to pay two hundred odd notes for the pleasure to get out of here, but considering my previous ISP managed to give me a rock solid 20mb / 15 ping / 6db connection for 3+ years, yes I do know better, so it will be worth every penny to get this substandard nonsense off of my line, it's been an emotional journey that's for sure, would I recommend Plusnet to anyone? not to my worst enemy matey, roll on disconnection day, as it can't come soon enough.
* To any new potential Plusnet customers reading this thread, please think very carefully before moving to Plusnet, as it's undoubtedly been a painful and very expensive 6 days learning experience for me, but if you do decide to join, I would personally recommend not telephoning the support team, because they seem to be very efficient at making things even worse, just keep quiet and keep your head down, ask and you shall receive more than you bargained for...rant over and I'm out...peace.*

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

Chris — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 21:54:26 GMT

If the stats are changing/dropping that often then it indicates an issue with the line.

Quote
I would even go as far as to say that my connection was being deliberately sabotaged with malicious intent

Sorry, but simply no. There's absolutely no benefit for us in doing this and in fact, we can't even do it. The sync speed is controlled between the exchange and your router, not by us.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Tue, 19 Jan 2016 22:17:05 GMT

I would beg to differ, I first phoned up cause my downstream SNR margin had risen from 6db to 9db to 12db, before the end of the first customer support conversation it had been set back on to 6db down, but at the same time he/she switched the upstream from 6db to 17-18db and capped my upload speed to 888 kbps (at the precise time that it resynced I could hear the representative muttering to a colleague that it's ok to cap it as it's not a business line, it's a residential line, followed by a chuckle), so my first customer support request lost me 388 kbps of upload, almost a third gone in an instant, stitched right up from the word go pal, and with every single phone call it got even worse, it was only after mentioning that I had spoken to Ofcom today that the downstream mysteriously jumped from 6652 to 19891 kbps, and it's still a bag of laggy tosh now, 16db SNR up, my ping is off the richter scale, it's absolutely pants.
Told that I would be set @ 6-6 SNR - It wasn't
Told that I would be set @ 3-6 SNR - It wasn't
Told that they would complete a full IP Profile reset - It wasn't
Told that they would restart the DLM training period - It wasn't
Told that Openreach only allocate Plusnet with the ability to make a small amount of exchange changes and that they were running low on this month's allocation - That one made me laugh
Told that the system won't accept any more changes on my account - Whatever
Told that interleaving had been turned off - If anything you chucked a load more on to give me that pitiful 6652 kbps
Told to turn the router off after 4 hours then wait 30 minutes x2 - Only to turn it back on again and find my connection is even worse than before
Told to turn the router off
Told never to turn the router off
Told that there could be a fault on the line
Told that there's absolutely no fault on the line
It's all a load of mickey mouse game playing, it might be more believable if you all sang from the same hymn sheet, I've been lead right up the garden path for the past 6 days, the service is very poor to say the least, and your team is full of liars matey, why should I believe a word that you say?

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 18:38:10 GMT

Day 7:
On the seventh day...(insert God like thunder noise here), well actually in the evening after moaning on here, my upstream SNR resynced to Day 1 stats @ 6db.
Day 8:
But then today...

*SNR (db)*	*Down*	Up
*Morning*	*5.9*	*6.0*
*Afternoon*	*9.1*	*6.1*
*Evening*	*12.1*	*6.2*

You can play around on my line like a guitar all day long for all I care, incompetent and childish are two words that spring to my mind.
Now just to clarify, on the 19th I telephoned the Cancellation Line and Cancelled, so why are the 21st are you telling me in a support ticket:

Quote
Regarding your request to cancel, we are unable to authorise this request online via a Ticket or Email. Our Customer Options Team are the only members off staff who have permission to provide a customer with a cancellation. If you wish to request to cancel your services, you need to call them between Monday to Friday, 9am to 5:30pm on 0845 140 6002 or 0800 43200200, or submit your request in writing by writing to...

Are you guys all on the same page or what?
Pretty please with sugar on top, can you please clarify that my contract has indeed been cancelled? And that I will be disconnected from this poor excuse of a service on the 2nd of February? as you have just added more unnecessary confusion into the mix, and please do feel free to set my connection absolutely any way that you see fit (isn't that exactly what you do anyways? lol), because just in case that you haven't already noticed, I won't be with Plusnet for much longer, and I gave up on caring the moment that I cancelled, thank you.
* Just a note that I wanted to add to anyone reading this, after just one week with this embarrassment of a so called company, they have already threatened me with debt recovery agency action in multiple support tickets. *

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

aesmith — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 19:37:07 GMT

Cancelling probably isn't the best course, unless you don't want Broadband at all. If you're shifting to another provider then let your new provider do the work, which should mean a shorter switch over and no Cease charge from Plusnet.
On another matter, are you sure the noise margin changes aren't in response to errors on the line? What do your router statistics show for FECs, CRCs etc?

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 19:42:28 GMT

Many thanks for taking the time to reply, but I just don't really care anymore, I've completely given up, I've already spent way too much of my time communicating with these so called support staff professionals, by contacting them it actually just made things even worse, Openreach initially setup a good reasonable line, and then Plusnet spent a week wrecking it, then add in the constant lies that they have been feeding to me, this is without doubt the worst ever customer experience that I've ever had...period, I'm just overwhelmingly relieved that I won't be tethered up to this feldercarb for 18 months, as it would be undeniably foolish of me to stick around with this substandard level of service and support, regards.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:50:50 GMT

In the past 30-45 minutes or so, 4 resyncs? upstream SNR 12db to 9db, and then from 9db back down to 6db again, so here we are...1 week of service, cancelled my contract and back on to Day 1 stats, if upsetting your new customers into leaving within the first week was the plan, you've collectively excelled with flying colours, if you could have only just set that like you did today...back on Day 2 like I politely asked you to do on the telephone, you would have still had a happy customer on your hands, I've seen less game playing on 5 seasons of Game of Thrones, I neither understand the point, nor the satisfaction gained by doing what you've done? does it make you feel important or powerful? extremely strange behavior in my opinion.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

jafreer — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 20:59:41 GMT

Quote from: aesmith
On another matter, are you sure the noise margin changes aren't in response to errors on the line? What do your router statistics show for FECs, CRCs etc?

That's a good point. Most changes like the ones you are seeing are automated changes in response to line conditions. I have criticised Plusnet before many times, but I don't think this is Plusnet doing anything to your line.
There are a lot of tests you can go through to try and get to the bottom of what is causing the problems, but I get the feeling you are past that and just want to leave now. Fair enough, but expect the same issues with any other provider if you are using the same connectivity infrastructure (FTTC). I suspect you are going to have to try and look at ways to resolve these issues if you are going to have a decent service.
Sorry if that isn't what you want to hear.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

godsell4 — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 21:58:24 GMT

The OP has not stated who the previous ISP was and if this is an ADSL2+ or FTTC connection.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 22:19:58 GMT

Previous ISP was TalkTalk LLU ADSL2+, was set on a static 24FSNR6 profile aka (24mb/Fastpath/6db), no Drastic Line Massacre, no Interleaving, broadcom chipset router connected to BT master socket with 8cm long custom Cat6 cable, the primary city exchange is 21CN-FTTC-FTTP, although fibre is not currently available in my street, approximately 1.4km (0.9mi) away (and that's walking distance), I know that from previous experience that my line is sweet even @ 3db SNR, I live in the city centre, not some farm yard barn.

*Attenuation (db)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*19.0*	*11.2*

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

jafreer — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 23:00:58 GMT

If your day 1 speed was 20.4 Mbps then I think this means you are on a fibre connection as ADSL2+ would only be up to 17 Mbps. So the connection is a little different than what it was with the ADSL2+. I think FTTC employs some different (or at least additional) frequencies. Whether that is a factor or not I don't know. Maybe their is some interference at the VDSL2 frequencies that is causing high numbers of errors on the line and DLM to react accordingly.
Have you gone through the faults process and done the automated line check (which I assume came back ok?). There is also a good sticky on this forum of steps to take in the event of slow speeds. Maybe you have tried all this already.
What hasn't helped is some of the contradictory information that you have been told by Plusnet (as indicated in your first post). So whilst I understand your frustration, if it is DLM reacting to your line conditions, that won't change with a different fibre service.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

pwatson — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 23:13:43 GMT

Quote from: jafreer
If your day 1 speed was 20.4 Mbps then I think this means you are on a fibre connection as ADSL2+ would only be up to 17 Mbps.

No - ADSL2+ has a max speed of 24Mps. It is sold as 'up to 17Mbps' due to Ofcom rules forcing ISPs to only advertise a figure that 90% of their customers can expect to achieve.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 23:28:10 GMT

It's definitely Busby's copper ADSL2+ 21CN, TalkTalk managed to maintain a constant 20mb+ for 3+ years (I had 1 outage in that period which BTOR swiftly fixed), 1 week with Plusnet and at one point I was syncing @ 6mb, Plusnet have definitely implemented some kind of downstream profile cap, as it's well below 20mb now, current sync is @ 19891, that's exactly 512 down from Day 1 (20403), according to Kitz it should be more like 20608, just shaved 3/4 of a meg off for the lulz?
No substantial errors, tried a different cable-filter-router, let's face it, it's the Plusnet keyboards that are doing the damage, the numbers don't even add up, at one point earlier in the week the Interleaver depth was 400+ on downstream, PN was my 4th ISP, and I've never seen anything like this before, kicking myself all week for putting this horrendous affliction called Plusnet upon my line, all I got was a pitiful service, countless hours of wasted time, a headache, and a big bill, you really do need to start offering a complimentary lubricant addon...(at least for the first month) lol, we live and learn though hey, I wouldn't even stay here if they offered this guano service for free.
6-6db, turn off Interleaving, how hard can it really be?
* We'll do you ~~proud~~ *

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

alanf — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 01:08:49 GMT

Quote from: pwatson
... Ofcom rules forcing ISPs to only advertise a figure that 90% of their customers can expect to achieve.

According to Martin Lewis in a recent TV program it is 10%.
Also this article "On top of that the study reflects the current Advertising Standards Authority rule, which essentially means that broadband ISPs can only promote a headline speed if it’s actually achievable by 10% of their customer base."
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/06/which-report-slams-big-uk-broadband-isps-for-misleading-service-speeds.html

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

deathtrap — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 01:26:54 GMT

Quote from: StalkStalk

No substantial errors, tried a different cable-filter-router, let's face it, it's the Plusnet keyboards that are doing the damage, the numbers don't even add up, at one point earlier in the week the Interleaver depth was 400+ on downstream, PN was my 4th ISP, and I've never seen anything like this before, kicking myself all week for putting this horrendous affliction called Plusnet upon my line, all I got was a pitiful service, countless hours of wasted time, a headache, and a big bill, you really do need to start offering a complimentary lubricant addon...(at least for the first month) lol, we live and learn though hey, I wouldn't even stay here if they offered this guano service for free.
6-6db, turn off Interleaving, how hard can it really be?
* We'll do you ~~proud~~ *

I believe that BT now allow manual profiles to be set that should override DLM why Plusnet don't appear to be able to carry out these changes i don't know , Was your sync speeds the same or nearly the same on day 1 with plusnet as there were previously with TT? if so this is down to dynamic line miss-management which it's underlying purpose is to mask potential line faults, and cut the number of support calls, It's why i stayed with LLU providers whilst on ADSL

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 01:35:32 GMT

21-22mb was the TalkTalk ballpark figure, my ping was much lower before as well, a lot of this is down to the Interleaving, why I'm Interleaving at less than a mile from a main city centre exchange is mind boggling, line Attenuation below 20db is categorised as outstanding, and I'm at 19db, this ain't no 50db+ line into the historic wilderness, just ran a ADSL BER test at my end, unsurprising it came back as clean as a whistle.

Portal > Data > Transfer Speed - Says that my estimated line speed is 2mb, very useful...total madness.
I can clearly see that it's being restricted, because the downstream attainable rate on the line is a lot higher (22284) than the actual given sync rate, that's one of hell of a margin?, that's a difference of 2393, surely that can't be right?, now I'm no broadband expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it look's as if the line is still pretty much capable of dishing out the same speed as the TalkTalk connection did beforehand?

*Sync Rate (kbps)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*19891*	*1276*

*Attainable Rate (kbps)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*22284*	*1288*

*SNR (db)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*6.1*	*6.0*

*Attenuation (db)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*19.0*	*11.2*

*Interleaver Depth (d)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	96	1

*Delay (msec)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	6	1

Again I'm no CTI Fire Spark, but I think if you change the Red number (Interleaving off), it will significantly help on the orange ones...ermm..?

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

stalkstalk — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 06:08:30 GMT

Just auto resyned.

*Sync Rate (kbps)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*18383*	*1275*

*Attainable Rate (kbps)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*20272*	*1282*

*SNR (db)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*9.1*	*6.0*

*Attenuation (db)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	*19.0*	*11.2*

*Interleaver Depth (d)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	96	4

*Delay (msec)*	*Down*	Up
*Current*	6	6

Around in circles...lol, the game continues.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

jafreer — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 11:34:26 GMT

Quote from: pwatson
No - ADSL2+ has a max speed of 24Mps. It is sold as 'up to 17Mbps'

Thanks for the clarification. So is a different standard applied to FTTC where they sell it as 'up to 38 Mbps' and 'up to 76 Mbps' since these seem to be the maximum speeds for the product?

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

x47c — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 16:45:58 GMT

Assuming you are next to the telephone exchange or close enough that your line length is not the limiting factor:
ADSL2 has a maximum theoretical SYNC speed of 24000Kbps.
Overheads on the BT system take the IP setting down to 88.3% of the sync achieved so the max theoretical BT IP setting will be 21192.
I guess Plusnet will round this down to 21.1Mbps as their data transfer setting.
This will be the max achievable
So you might expect to achieve this as a real download on Sunday mornings at 6am from a site that could actually provide the data at that rate.
Now; not myself having FTTC - I'm sort of guessing/remembering the figures for FTTC...
Assuming now that your house is next to the cabinet
The max possible FTTC sync speed is 80Mbps
I think the IP setting is something like 94% of the sync which indeed does give the max possible achievable download at 75Mbps

as to the OP....
I think the line has a fault on it - hence the wild gyrations as the fault comes and goes and the DLM tries to compensate for the varying line conditions it finds.

Re: My 6 Days Of Plusnet Pain

ejs — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 17:04:41 GMT

I am wondering if it was actually any use of the phone that was affecting the broadband, if it seemed to get worse each time Plusnet was phoned. Also if there are any other telephone sockets, what kind of master socket, test socket etc. The TalkTalk LLU equipment might have been set on a fixed profile, and so would have disregarded any problems caused by extension wiring, but now it's on BTWholesale equipment with the Dynamic Line Management.