topic Re: Internet Freezes in Plusnet Feedback

Internet Freezes

Diamond — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:57:16 GMT

Why is it that whenever I have a problem with the internet freezing, it's never PlusNet's fault? My router shows steady green lights and the wired computer reports a connection. The WI-Fi laptop reports a good 100% signal as does my wife's laptop. Yet I get sudden freezes of internet connection, for periods lasting a minute to twenty minutes sometimes longer, changing to my spare router makes no difference either, but If I switch over to my alternative dialup connection, it's all working fine.
Accessing the PN portal...well, let's just say if I sent a carrier pidgeon with a message on it's foot and it would beat my internet!
Seriously though I have had just about enough. I was with AOL on this same line/exchange from 2002 and never had a problem other than with their accounts department ( my reason for leaving them for a UK based call centre), I had a slightly slower speed with them but it was unlimited acess and constant.
I have raised a report tickets in the past and have to switched off my router over night as requested so a check can be made, of course, as this is the time when all runs smoothly so no problem there.
Sorry PlusNet, I cannot recommend your service to my friends, I don't consider you to be value for money. I am a monthly customer, whilst waiting for the cancellation fee to be out of scope I will be searching for anotherbroadband/ telephone provider.

Re: Internet Freezes

VileReynard — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:19:23 GMT

I suggest you try posting some of the relevant stats from your router in these forums...
Try that manky BT speedtest - the information it shows is a basic minimum (but ignore what it says about data rate).

Re: Internet Freezes

orbrey — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:13:31 GMT

Hi Diamond,
I can see that you raised a fault back at the start of July which you closed after being advised that your issue may have been related to the DNS problem that we had open at the time.
As the issue has continued after the problem was closed I'd recommend raising another fault so we can investigate this for you - I'm sorry for the hassle you've had but we won't know that the fault is still present if you don't let us know.
If you raise it to us at http://faults.plus.net I'll take a look at it for you and see what I can do.

Re: Internet Freezes

Diamond — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:32:05 GMT

Quote from: orbrey
Hi Diamond,
I can see that you raised a fault back at the start of July which you closed after being advised that your issue may have been related to the DNS problem that we had open at the time.It was reported prior to that and all tests were undecisive, there was a lapse before it started again.
As the issue has continued after the problem was closed I'd recommend raising another fault so we can investigate this for you - I'm sorry for the hassle you've had but we won't know that the fault is still present if you don't let us know.I quite agree, however, see next quote.
If you raise it to us at http://faults.plus.net I'll take a look at it for you and see what I can do.
Ticket raised, however same old tests, checking for speed or connection problems, I have the speed I am capable of 1.6mbps (except for PN website) and I have a constant connection..... it remains connected, it just hangs for indeterminate legnths of time

This message just received I have had before.

Quote
Broadband Fault Checker - Connection checks [ Completed ]
The Connection checks could not be completed
Test result summary: Inconclusive
We have not been able to complete the checks of your broadband service. This may be the result of a fault in the testing system rather than your service.

Attempted to telephone to discuss the problem but advised due to numbers of support calls, a 10 minute wait. " flogging a dead horse" comes to mind

Re: Internet Freezes

orbrey — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:00:32 GMT

Ideally it needed to be raised as an intermittent fault rather than a speed fault, as the BT tests for each type test for different issues. I'll pass it through to the correct pool for you and get it tested again.

Re: Internet Freezes

Diamond — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:46:18 GMT

I received a moderater PM stating I was in breach of forum rules for removing a moderators comment, well just in case my reply did not get through, I did no such thing, as far as I am aware!.
It is quite likely that whilst editing my own post, my trusty internet connection froze yet again ,during which time the aforementioned moderator message may have been posted, a post I would not have been able to see.
Once my connection became live again, I sent my own edited post, which of course would overwrite any other.
Please feel free to re post your forum moderators message.

Re: Internet Freezes

Strat — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:10:00 GMT

I have received your reply Diamond and have responded.

Re: Internet Freezes

Diamond — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:31:51 GMT

Received thank you Strat...
What a difference a day makes, from 2030 until midnight last night the internet did not freeze, (it became sluggish at one point probably due to it going into the "free zone" but no dead stops as I had been getting.
Today, seems to be better too.
In my own non professional anyalitacal mind, this definately points the problem way way away from my own routers, my three computers, their installed software, and my own BT sockets and lines.
Nothing reported yet from PN but it should give them an indication where to start looking :D. (On hols from sat so I won't know till I get back)

Re: Internet Freezes

VileReynard — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:27:08 GMT

It doesn't rule out "intermittent problems" - if you haven't tried an alternate router, PN would lend you one (or replace it, if it's one of there supplied ones).
It also doesn't rule out interference caused by something local:-
such as any electrical device causing interference, including wired telephones, street lights coming on etc etc...
It would be worth keeping a diary of freezes, so that you can see if there is a pattern to it.

Re: Internet Freezes

ReedRichards — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:44:20 GMT

I have only just come across this tool myself but would running a tracert (trace route) help? When things are frozen, open up a cmd window and enter, for example, 'tracert www.goole.com'. ; If there is something broken or stuck between your computer and the Google website, this will give an indication of where the problem lies. You would have to post the result here for 'the wise' to interpret.
Edit: Here's the result I get from my computer. Step 1 is my router, step 2 is the Plusnet gateway I'm connected to. Steps 3, 4 & 5 are identifiably other Plusnet computers and I presume the fact that first line shows the Google URL resolved into an IP address indicates that DNS is working.
C:\Users\Reed>tracert www.google.com
Tracing route to www.l.google.com [209.85.227.103]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 26 ms 26 ms 34 ms lo0-plusnet.pcl-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.109]
3 26 ms 25 ms 26 ms gi1-6-703.pcl-gw01.plus.net [84.92.0.181]
4 24 ms 25 ms 26 ms te2-2.pte-gw1.plus.net [212.159.0.186]
5 26 ms 26 ms 25 ms te2-4.pte-gw2.plus.net [212.159.1.102]
6 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms 195.66.224.125
7 27 ms 26 ms 25 ms 64.233.175.25
8 31 ms 31 ms 31 ms 72.14.232.134
9 31 ms 32 ms 31 ms 209.85.252.83
10 35 ms 37 ms 32 ms 209.85.243.89
11 32 ms 32 ms 31 ms wy-in-f103.google.com [209.85.227.103]
Trace complete.

Re: Internet Freezes

Diamond — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:04:07 GMT

I did say in my original post that using my alternative router made no difference at all, (I have my own rather than PN's in order to avoid contractual ties), but If PN wishes to loan me a test router to prove the point, I have no problem with that at all.
Street lights...a luxury, not seen those for a few years, here in the countryside we don't need them.
If it were something local, then my neighbours would be suffering the same problems, same exchange, same antiquated phone lines, the only difference between us is the ISP. AOL, BT and then myself on PN.
Running the speedtouch connectivity gives a positive result.

Already followed the CMD route whist on the telephone to PN when the last support ticket was in progress.. but thanks anyway

Re: Internet Freezes

ReedRichards — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:51:57 GMT

Quote from: Diamond

....Running the speedtouch connectivity gives a positive result.

Already followed the CMD route whist on the telephone to PN when the last support ticket was in progress.. but thanks anyway

Well, the connectivity test gives a positive result as far as it goes, which is as far as some computers belonging to Plusnet but it doesn't test your ability to get out into the internet proper. If you try to go to www.bbc.co.uk ; and you cannot load the web page then running 'tracert www.bbc.co.uk ' will prove (I think) that this is Plusnet's fault and not something wrong with your computer/router. On the other hand, it's fairly common for web browsers to 'freeze' but that would be your problem and not Plusnet's. I think this is a good test to run if you want to get to the bottom of where the problem lies but, as I said originally, I'm new to this diagnostic tool so I could be wrong.

Re: Internet Freezes

x47c — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:30:40 GMT

I've also had problems with the web suddenly becoming unavailable and being unable to connect (ie I get a timed out message) , or outlook being unable to connect to a server (I get a cannot connect error). Sometime outlook is able to connect and the web is non functional, sometimes the other way round and sometimes both.
when I try later -as in a few hours it is OK
I don't reboot computer or the router - it just starts working when I try again
There is no problem with the router which shows a constant uninterputed connection.
I'm connecting at around 7700 to 8000 sync speed with a margin of around 6, I'm 2km from the exchange
This has just started to become a problem in the last few weeks
This evening I got another web failed to connect and quickly ran a tracert on the site
see below:
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
C:\Documents and Settings\David>tracert dslzoneuk.net
Tracing route to dslzoneuk.net [80.77.246.42]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms voyager.home [192.168.1.1]
2 47 ms 37 ms 39 ms lo0-plusnet.pte-ag2.plus.net [195.166.128.72]
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 1012 ms 35 ms 34 ms ae0-1234.rt2.the.uk.goscomb.net [195.66.224.226]
5 32 ms 36 ms 36 ms 213.230.194.161
6 122 ms 194 ms 209 ms xifos-gw.customer.lchost.net [213.230.194.102]
7 32 ms 36 ms 33 ms www.dslzoneuk.net [80.77.246.42]
Trace complete.
C:\Documents and Settings\David>tracert dslzoneuk.net
Tracing route to dslzoneuk.net [80.77.246.42]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms voyager.home [192.168.1.1]
2 34 ms 33 ms 35 ms lo0-plusnet.pte-ag2.plus.net [195.166.128.72]
3 71 ms 75 ms 96 ms ge0-0-0-504.pte-gw2.plus.net [84.92.4.90]
4 35 ms 34 ms 40 ms ae0-1234.rt2.the.uk.goscomb.net [195.66.224.226]
5 33 ms 36 ms 32 ms 213.230.194.161
6 34 ms 34 ms 35 ms xifos-gw.customer.lchost.net [213.230.194.102]
7 32 ms 34 ms 35 ms www.dslzoneuk.net [80.77.246.42]
Trace complete.
So that looks to me as if the time out on the first trace is happening between two of plus net servers....................
on the second the max delay is also at plus net....
Over to those more expert in all of this than me.

Re: Internet Freezes

Diamond — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:33:32 GMT

I gave it a go and here we are.
C:\Documents and Settings\bobby>tracert www.ebay.co.uk
Tracing route to hp-intl-uk.ebay.com [66.135.200.28]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 16 ms 99 ms 99 ms dsldevice.lan [192.168.1.254]
2 40 ms 45 ms 41 ms lo0-plusnet.pcl-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.109]
3 38 ms 41 ms 37 ms gi1-6-703.pcl-gw01.plus.net [84.92.0.181]
4 36 ms 55 ms 42 ms xe-1-2-0-0.lon20.ip4.tinet.net [213.200.79.233]
5 41 ms 41 ms 145 ms xe-8-0-0.ams20.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.185.90]
6 43 ms 49 ms 53 ms ge2-0.1000M.asd9nxg1.ip.tele.dk [213.200.75.110]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 *

Re: Internet Freezes

VileReynard — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:38:37 GMT

Unfortunately, traceroute is not a reliable proof of things going wrong...

Quote
This program attempts to trace the route an IP packet would follow to some internet host by launching probe packets with a small ttl (time to live) then listening for an ICMP "time exceeded" reply from a gateway. We start our probes with a ttl of one and increase by one until we get an ICMP "port unreachable" (or TCP reset), which means we got to the "host", or hit a max...

Sending lots of packets which get rejected may cause firewalls to treat your traceroute traffic as very low priority...
Trying a simple ping command (provided the site accepts it - many do, is much quicker.

Re: Internet Freezes

ReedRichards — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 22:34:00 GMT

Quote from: Crucibleofevil

Sending lots of packets which get rejected may cause firewalls to treat your traceroute traffic as very low priority...
Trying a simple ping command (provided the site accepts it - many do, is much quicker.

But if a ping fails you have no idea where the problem lies. I guess the thing is to not read too much into the result of either the ping or tracert test without knowing what is 'normal'. For example, if I run a tracert on www.ebay.co.uk I get the same result as Diamond (below). If I try to ping www.ebay.co.uk the request times out.
My tracert trace gets beyond Plusnet into the wider internet but then gets blocked/rejected so I start getting a series of 'request timed outs'. But I can see that I do have a connection to Plusnet and beyond. I have no problem loading the ebay web site, by the way, so both Diamond and I have a connection into the Internet at large but for some reason he experiences freezes. Unfortunately, Diamond did not make it explicit if the test result he gave was at the time of such a freeze or when things were working normally.
On the other hand, I would have though that x47c might have some legitimate cause for concern over his results.

C:\Users\Reed>tracert www.ebay.co.uk
Tracing route to hp-intl-uk.ebay.com [66.135.200.146]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 28 ms 27 ms 27 ms lo0-plusnet.pcl-ag03.plus.net [195.166.128.109]
3 25 ms 25 ms 26 ms gi1-6-703.pcl-gw01.plus.net [84.92.0.181]
4 24 ms 24 ms 26 ms xe-1-2-0-0.lon20.ip4.tinet.net [213.200.79.233]
5 34 ms 30 ms 31 ms xe-8-0-0.ams20.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.185.90]
6 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms ge8-0.1000M.asd9nxg1.ip.tele.dk [213.200.75.30]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.

Re: Internet Freezes

VileReynard — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:08:19 GMT

I got:-

Quote
traceroute to www.ebay.co.uk (66.135.217.241), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 ROUTER (192.168.1.1) 1.962 ms 5.427 ms 5.591 ms
2 lo0.plusnet.thn-ag2.plus.net (195.166.128.93) 14.648 ms 15.540 ms 16.228 ms
3 vl604.thn-gw1.plus.net (84.92.4.169) 18.135 ms 18.193 ms 18.408 ms
4 ldn-b4-link.telia.net (213.248.84.201) 18.590 ms 19.066 ms 19.848 ms
5 62.156.138.53 (62.156.138.53) 20.682 ms 22.493 ms 22.906 ms
6 194.25.6.50 (194.25.6.50) 165.204 ms 164.182 ms 161.540 ms
7 * * *
8 * * *
9 * * *
10 * * *
11 * * *
12 * * *^C

Which still fails, but in a different way.

Re: Internet Freezes

ReedRichards — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 08:23:30 GMT

Which confirms that www.ebay.co.uk is a bad choice for a trace route (tracert) test. I notice that the DNS lookup results for the ebay web site were slightly different in each case (i.e. we each got a different IP address). Is that normal, I wonder?
Diamond, was your test run at a time when your internet was frozen or working normally? There is nothing strikingly abnormal in the tracert test you ran and it confirms that you did have an internet connection at a very primitive level, even if your web browser was not working.

Re: Internet Freezes

Diamond — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 08:43:08 GMT

You did not specify which url to choose, I just happened to notice a slight wobble on that site so it was an obvious one to try.
I had connection...no actual freezes yeaterday, this morning is also ok.

Re: Internet Freezes

ReedRichards — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:46:44 GMT

Diamond, I suggest you follow my earlier example and try www.google.com . Run a tracert test and record the result, then run the test again next time your internet freezes.