topic Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here in Plusnet Feedback

IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

pipex — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:14:25 GMT

Plusnet in there wisdom are now allocating US ip addresses this caused me big problems as when applying for credit cards or bank accounts were refused because of security checks identifying IP address as not UK based ie possible fraud. found this out by cunard web site which kept switching from co.uk to .com . after extensive checks and numerous phone calls including a visit from IT expert found it was on a US ip address. We also found out that plusnet has purchased a number of these from the US . Because I guess they have run out of UK IP addresses. Pity they don't think of the implications of there action. is this legal as american web rules are different from UK?
jim:green title changed to make it more obvious mod:end

Re: IP addresses not uk

Oldjim — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:19:46 GMT

I assume that you have changed your IP address as the one you are presently using is defined in RIPE as being Plusnet unless the sites you have problems with aren't keeping up to date

Re: IP addresses not uk

AndyH — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:22:02 GMT

Is your IP range 146.198.0.0 - 146.198.255.255 (you can check here http://www.whatismyip.com)?

Re: IP addresses not uk

Oldjim — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:25:19 GMT

for clarity at present it is the range 87.113 etc.
EDIT - number corrected need to get better glasses

Re: IP addresses not uk

pipex — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:26:57 GMT

of course i changed it to a uk IP address im just flagging it up for other users

Re: IP addresses not uk

Oldjim — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:29:25 GMT

did you happen to notice which one it was

Re: IP addresses not uk

AndyH — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:34:29 GMT

Plusnet need to clarify whether they are still using the Infonet IP range (146.198.0.0 - 146.198.255.255) because there was another user reporting this the other day http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,126149.msg1140225.html#msg1140225 It was my understanding that they were no longer using this range due to the issues with geolocation.
If you look at the ARIN database, there is no mention of Plusnet anymore as the network name - http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-146-198-0-0-1/pft
If Plusnet are using this range (which they shouldn't be) and it's causing people to be refused credit/bank accounts due to the registered IP address, then it's a very serious issue. If you get a black flag for attempted fraud on your credit rating, it can be very difficult to have it removed.

Re: IP addresses not uk

pipex — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:39:32 GMT

unfortunately the engineer showed me the US script for clearly stating US then corrected it and showed me it stated UK , corrected it by restarting the router. . My main interest was correcting the problem and calling plusnet many names.

Re: IP addresses not uk

AndyH — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:43:47 GMT

This is what Adam C said on the previous thread (which would lead me to believe that Plusnet are still using that Infonet range):

Quote from: Adam
Thanks for flagging this up to us. I can confirm that we have switched the details over for these IP ranges however there are a few companies out there that may still be using an out of date database for these, as such it seems Dropbox is one of them and are still seeing these addresses as being our in the USA.

The problem is this range has not been switched over - it's still registered to Infonet in the ARIN database and it's not registered with RIPE.

Re: IP addresses not uk

pipex — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:45:00 GMT

I will be watching these ip address very carefully in the future, fortunately no black flag but has blocked cards being used by my bank. PITY PLUSNET CANT EXPLAIN THERE ACTIONS ive tried but no joy. My engineer thinks that its a money saving decision as its cheaper to buy IP addresses from US. Maybe ive opened a can of worms!!!

Re: IP addresses not uk

Oldjim — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:48:07 GMT

I doubt it is a money saving decision - more the fact that IP4 addresses are running out and Plusnet haven't started using IP6 address systems
Before you ask I have no idea why not or what the problems stopping them are other than I don't think my router supports them at present

Re: IP addresses not uk

ejs — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:55:37 GMT

It's the 146.200.*.* range of IP addresses, which do have some Plusnet details but also INFONET, I don't think Plusnet have ever used the 146.198.*.* range.

Re: IP addresses not uk

AndyH — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:00:49 GMT

@ ejs - Thanks, not sure where I got the 146.198.*.* range from.
The issue is that in ARIN's database, the organisation that owns the range is shown as:

Quote
Name INFONET Services Corporation
Handle INFO
Street 2160 East Grand Avenue
City El Segundo
State/Province CA
Postal Code 90245-1022
Country US
Registration Date
Last Updated 2011-11-30

If this is causing Plusnet users to fail bank/credit card credit checks, then Plusnet either have to stop using the range or update the details so they are registered owner. If you apply for a credit card and it's refused, it will stay on your credit file and will be very very difficult to have this removed. If it shows the reason for the refusal (as possible fraud due to a foreign IP address), then it's even worse.

Re: IP addresses not uk

Townman — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:41:57 GMT

Is the issue here that 146/8 is owned (administered) by ARIN the AMERICAN registers?
Even if PN get the registration records fixed with ARIN (which have not been touched since 2003) will not the fact that this ip range is on the AMERICAN register still present problems?

Re: IP addresses not uk

bobpullen — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:50:58 GMT

Quote from: AndyH
Plusnet need to clarify whether they are still using the Infonet IP range (146.198.0.0 - 146.198.255.255) because there was another user reporting this the other day http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,126149.msg1140225.html#msg1140225 It was my understanding that they were no longer using this range due to the issues with geolocation.

No, we are not using those ranges. We are however using 146.200.0.0/16 which was formerly assigned to Infonet (I think we also have 146.199.0.0/16 but it's not in use yet).

Quote from: AndyH
The issue is that in ARIN's database, the organisation that owns the range is shown as:
Quote
Name INFONET Services Corporation

It's a bit of a mish-mash TBH.
Whilst these IP's admittedly caused a lot of headaches when first introduced, the vast majority of Geo-location services are now recognising them as UK-based. If you encounter any problematic sites then we could do with knowing about them. We'd need to know the address of the site you're trying to access, the IP you're assigned and the gateway you're connected to.
In the meantime, I'll query why the ARIN records still reference Infonet.
The introduction of these IP's are nothing to do with cost-cutting BTW

Re: IP addresses not uk

avatastic — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:04:50 GMT

Quote from: Bob
The introduction of these IP's are nothing to do with cost-cutting BTW

Nope, it's to do with dodging the IPv6 train for another 12 months!

Re: IP addresses not uk

bobpullen — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:19:49 GMT

Quote from: avatastic
Quote from: Bob
The introduction of these IP's are nothing to do with cost-cutting BTW

Nope, it's to do with dodging the IPv6 train for another 12 months!

After a bit of digging, it transpires that it's not particularly straight forward for us to get those Whois details updated. Without going into too much detail, it's all down to where the IP's came from. The detectives amongst you might be able to guess based on some of the email addresses in the Whois output
We'll give the appropriate people a nudge, however it shouldn't have too much of an influence on geo-location. Whois data is not a reliable source of IP location. As mentioned previously, most of the main geo-location providers in the UK have updated their databases. Sites still presenting problems either haven't refreshed their location data for a while or are using a geo-location database that we've overlooked.

Re: IP addresses not uk

Townman — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:40:09 GMT

Hi Bob,
I do hope that does not mean fruitless phone calls with an off shore call centre for you!
<cynic>Guess that's what happens when you bum a few spare IP addresses from a known to be problematic supplier!</cynic>.
Cheers,
Kevin

Re: IP addresses not uk

pipex — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:17:08 GMT

I think the problem is plusnet is expanding quicker than the infrastructure. The cost implication for the giveaway prices advertised on tv will without a doubt affect Service and quality. I think there reaching the point of meltdown maybe they need to read there management books again, they are struggling and it is obvious and other providers will benefit from there marketing dept pushing for sales. They need to slow down and build the infrastructure support etc . then move to the next level otherwise , it will collapse like a pack of cards. Seen it time and time again they never learn.

Re: IP addresses not uk

bobpullen — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:30:20 GMT

I can assure you that our broadband infrastructure is not in jeopardy. We've planned/forecast its expansion accordingly.
Take bandwidth for example.
In the last 12 months, we have more than doubled our network capacity and in the next 12 months, we'll increase it by more than half again. When iOS8 is released in autumn, we'll be adding more bandwidth for this one event than we did for the whole of 2012 (Olympics included) and the first half of 2013.