topic Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code in Plusnet Feedback

multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

disfroot — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:15:52 GMT

Hi,
I'm posting this on behalf of someone to whom I recommended PlusNet.
He is having a nightmare migration experience and is considering giving up on the attempt to move to PlusNet
because they have repeatedly failed to act effectively in ascertaining why his migration date keeps getting put forward
as order after order that PlusNet place with BT Wholesale fails with no adequate explanation of
- WHY it has failed, and , more importantly,
- what PlusNet have done to make sure the next order doesn't also fail in the same manner.
I should add that this is WITH a valid MAC code that is repeatedly accepted by BT Wholesale
and an order number provided.
He is now at the position where, if this third attempt fails, he will consider another ISP as he thinks that
PlusNet aren't being smart enough about sorting out this obviously unacceptable situation.
I, as a referrer, can't really disagree with him.
What exactly are the reasons for a migration order failing once a valid, in-date MAC code has been provided ?

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

jelv — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:44:34 GMT

If you can get the number of a ticket from his account and post it here someone from Plusnet should be able to take a look and see what's going on.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

disfroot — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:42:11 GMT

Migration Ticket ID is 29728885
MAC code expires 21 Sep 09
latest migration date given is 19 Sep 09
one attempt remaining, therefore.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

EnglishMohican — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 07:59:48 GMT

@Jelv - Aimed at PlusNet staff rather than at you - but isn't the point that someone from Plusnet should already have taken a look and seen what's going on.
Jim

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

jelv — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:25:37 GMT

Yes but that will have been the ordinary staff. I meant one of the trouble shooters who read these forums and frequently get problems sorted out when the ~~mupp...~~ ordinary staff have failed.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

James — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:46:02 GMT

@disfroot
Your migration is due to complete by the end of September 18th.
Regarding the previous orders, the information that I have is that they were cancelled due to duplicate orders being present on the line. That could be anything from an service level change, to an interleaving order, to a change in product. I'm afraid that because at the time you were not a customer of ours, we are unable to find out that information and BT will also not give it to us.
It's possible that BT Retail / Yahoo would be able to tell you, but I'm afraid that there's not a massive amount that we would have been able to do. Let me know if there are further problems and I can try getting some sense out of Wholesale for you.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

disfroot — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:26:12 GMT

Quote from: Jameseh
@disfroot
Regarding the previous orders, the information that I have is that they were cancelled due to duplicate orders being present on the line. That could be anything from an service level change, to an interleaving order, to a change in product.

The broadband account in question has been unmodified as a BT Total Option 1 'Up to 8M' product for several years. There has not been a request on the customer's behalf for a change in any aspect of his broadband service apart from wanting rid of it; he wouldn't even know what an 'interleaving order' is.
So what a 'duplicate order' actually is, remains an annoying, unexplained mystery.
Can you think of any other things that typically prevent customers of BT Retail migrating to PlusNet on the first attempt ?
I had no idea that a valid MAC code was no guarantee of the ability to migrate a broadband service.
So, to the lexicon of frustration that includes 'tags on the line' that prevent you getting a MAC code, we now have to add 'orders on the line' that prevent the migration even after you've got the code.
This MAC system is broken, isn't it ?

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

jelv — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:36:37 GMT

I'm wondering if it could be an order relating to the phone account not broadband. I could believe that BT's system is so crappy it can only handle one order at a time of any type!

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

James — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:55:27 GMT

The MAC system isn't broken - migration orders rarely fail.
I don't believe it to be a specific problem to BT Retail customers, but merely to your line sadly
Let me know if you have any further problems and I'll be more than happy to pick it up with Wholesale myself.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

disfroot — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:24:55 GMT

@jelv phone order - don't think so, but I'll check, thanks.
@Jameseh

Quote
The MAC system isn't broken - migration orders rarely fail.

Any numbers for that ? Is it '3 nines', '4 nines', '5 nines' or '5 sixes' ?

Quote
I don't believe it to be a specific problem to BT Retail customers, but merely to your line sadly

Does PlusNet issue MAC codes to departing customers when there are PlusNet 'orders on the line', then ?
There must be an Ofcom-approved way of doing these things to avoid the big stick, surely ?

Quote
Let me know if you have any further problems and I'll be more than happy to pick it up with Wholesale myself.

If the third migration attempt fails on the 19th, I'll take you up on that offer, thanks.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

disfroot — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:58:37 GMT

@Jameseh or other Plusnet staff
The third migration attempt appears to have failed.
It is now 15h45 on the 19th and your last ticket reply said the latest completion of the order was 'up to midnight' on the 18th.
The MAC code expires on the 21st - the earliest date you give in your automated script for examining the problem again.
This will be too late.
Can you please allocate someone who is actually able to deal with this ?
A brief recap.
After the first failed migration order, on Tues 8 Sep you said

Quote
The previous open order has been closed and your broadband order is progressing fine and is due to complete on: 09/09/09

The order failed. On the 11th Sept you said

Quote
I have called BT they have advised me that the line is now clear.

The third order has passed the deadline and appears to have failed.
What is the worth of anything that you are told by BT Wholesale at this point ?

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

James — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:31:36 GMT

Hmm.
I'm on the phone to Wholesale currently. They have me on hold whilst they talk to Openreach.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

James — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:09:20 GMT

I've just given your referral a ring.
Openreach claim there is currently no conflicting order present on the line and this order should complete.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

disfroot — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:24:17 GMT

@Jameseh

Quote from: Jameseh
I've just given your referral a ring.

Yes, he rang me to tell me you had called. Thanks for your effort.

Quote from: Jameseh
Openreach claim there is currently no conflicting order present on the line and this order should complete.

Same as they said the previous two times, then. So why are they repeatedly not doing the job and aborting the
orders ? Who is actually abandoning the job ? Is it a line technician in an Openreach depot in the service
area of the local DSLAM, a clerk in a regional office or a national centre ?
What is physically involved in migrating a line, btw ?
Is it a purely electronic configuration change that can be performed remotely from a NOC, or does it involve a
physical inspection at the local DSLAM ?

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

James — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:43:13 GMT

Hi,
I'm not personally aware of whether or not Openreach were consulted when the previous orders failed. All I know is that when I called them, they stated that there were no conflicting orders and the migration should work fine.
With a broadband migration, I don't think there's actually a massive amount of work done - my understanding is that it's just a configuration change as nothing physical is required and it's more of a case of just making changes to the BT RAS to allow the connection to a different ISP instead.
I appreciate that that doesn't offer any logical explanation as to why an order should fail if there is another one present!

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

disfroot — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:05:27 GMT

@Jameseh

Quote from: Jameseh
Hi,
I'm not personally aware of whether or not Openreach were consulted when the previous orders failed. All I know is that when I called them, they stated that there were no conflicting orders and the migration should work fine.

Just for the record here. My referral has just rung to tell me that the fourth migration attempt expected today has once again failed.
He didn't understand much of what he was told by the PlusNet person who rang him, so any details you can place here
for general public consumption about what exactly the nature of BT's incompatible internal customer systems actually
are and why 'being on the old system' thwarts the Ofcom-mandated MAC procedure would be of great interest.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

James — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:42:58 GMT

<--- Plusnet person that called your referral.
It's a 21C to 20C migration that has issues.
I've escalated it to Team Leader level within BT. This was one of the two issues I spent over an hour dealing with BT on. I assure you that I'm doing everything possible to get it up and running.
If you have access to his tickets, it might make a bit more sense.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

jelv — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 09:03:28 GMT

If he was on 21CN with the old ISP why can't you move him across to the 21CN trial - would that make it simpler?

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

James — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 09:11:21 GMT

Probably not. As there would be a realm change along with a change in ISP ownership.
I'm more hopeful now that there is more attention on this order from a BT level, but I'll chase up for some further information today.

Re: multiple migration order failures, despite valid MAC code

disfroot — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 21:17:10 GMT

Quote from: Jameseh
I'm more hopeful now that there is more attention on this order from a BT level, but I'll chase up for some further information today.

no luck, then ?
can you expand on what the 'issues' are ? One odd thing I noticed about his broadband when I did an
M-Labs line test for him and that was, in addition to his poor download speed of 720kbps, the M-Labs
server also indicated upstream speeds of 520-560kbps, i.e. greater than 448kbps. Has BT ever sold such
a domestic product ?