topic Re: Internet Down in Plusnet Feedback

Internet Down

Boz — Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:04:12 GMT

Internet down on a number of occasions tonight. Has there been a problem on the Plusnet servers?
Boz

Re: Internet Down

adamwalker — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 08:08:58 GMT

Hi Boz,
No issues here that could cause that and nothing's been reported in your area.
You can see the disconnections from last night on the following graph which also shows that you've thankfully had a fairly stable connection since:
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image14036835716864.png"/>
If that starts to happen again I'd recommend going through the steps in our faults checker here: http://faults.plus.net

Re: Internet Down

Townman — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:03:51 GMT

Adam,
These radius graphs report loss of PPP session, but there is no indication / confirmation if the DSL session was also lost. Loss of PPP without loss of DSL points to a different set of issues than loss of DSL as well.
I've noticed over the last few weeks (ignoring last week when I was completely of air due to an under river cable fault) that PPP sessions are being dropped more frequently than I would expect, particularly on BNG gateways, so much so that I thought the JUNOS gateways were being taken out of service overnight.
Could be a red herring...!
Being able to overlay loss of DSL on these graphs would be quite informative.
Kevin

Re: Internet Down

adamwalker — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:18:16 GMT

Hi Townman,
I made the safe assumption that those disconnections were what the Op referred to as the connection being

Quote
down on a number of occasions tonight.

I can't act on the opposite assumption so I'd still advise Boz to raise a fault if they continue to have problems with disconnections.

Re: Internet Down

Boz — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:25:02 GMT

Quote from: _Adam_Walker_

I can't act on the opposite assumption so I'd still advise Boz to raise a fault if they continue to have problems with disconnections.

Thanks for the response, Adam.
I was watching Demand On Five (Cricket) at the time. Could the problem be at that end?

Re: Internet Down

Boz — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:39:05 GMT

Quote from: Townman

These radius graphs report loss of PPP session, but there is no indication / confirmation if the DSL session was also lost. Loss of PPP without loss of DSL points to a different set of issues than loss of DSL as well.

Hi Kevin
Could you explain what you mean by "no indication/confirmation if DSL session was also lost". I've always assumed that, when the ADSL light is flashing on the modem (as it was last night), the Internet is down - i.e. no connection to Plusnet.
Boz

Re: Internet Down

Townman — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:46:23 GMT

Adam,
I understand that you can only act upon (make valid assumptions based on) the information you have easily available and that at present obtaining the additional DSL information is a ball ache! I am mindful that the vast majority of users cannot discern the difference from just a loss of PPP and one associated with a loss of DSL. That difference though is helpful information for the diagnostic process.
For a user to do this requires inspection of the router logs - possibly via the telnet interface to get anything older than a couple of hours.
I am mindful that richer information enables better decision making. I have seen a lot of PPP session losses of recent times without DSL loss. It occurs to me that there is benefit to be had by enhancing the reporting tool - this is feedback based on experience.
Cheers,
Kevin

Re: Internet Down

Pettitto — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:04:14 GMT

I can't see any sync drops from our side. Our testing systems aren't showing us any sync details.
@Boz - Which router are you using? Does it display a make/model?

Re: Internet Down

Townman — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:16:10 GMT

Hi Boz,
For pedants like me there is the devil in the detail! "The Internet is down" is a perception which can cover a few sins, each causing the same symptom - you cannot connect or get an interrupted experience.
If you are using the on TG router it has two lights - BROADBAND and INTERNET - however your original post made no reference to modem lights.
If the BROADBAND light is not solid green, then there is no synch (DSL) session. If it flashes then it is trying to synch.
If the INTERNET light is green, it means that there is a PPP session, if it flashes it means data is being transferred. If it is off or red it means that a PPP session cannot be established. These two conditions can occur whilst the BROADBAND light is green.
The radius plots only reflect the state of the INTERNET light, not the BROADBAND light, there is though a tendency (an assumption based on probability) that these plots do imply the loss of DSL (BROADBAND) connectivity as well. Of recent weeks I have seen numerous occasions where this is not the case.
I am not suggesting that in your particular case the call is wrong, rather that in general a more complete set of report data would be useful and might indicate that there are issues else where.
EDIT: Chris' update is interesting - he cannot find synch drops (which does not mean there were none) which points directly to my concern about the presumption that a loss of PPP means a loss of DSL.
Cheers,
Kevin

Re: Internet Down

Boz — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:30:37 GMT

Quote from: Townman

If the BROADBAND light is not solid green, then there is no synch (DSL) session. If it flashes then it is trying to synch.
If the INTERNET light is green, it means that there is a PPP session, if it flashes it means data is being transferred. If it is off or red it means that a PPP session cannot be established. These two conditions can occur whilst the BROADBAND light is green.
The radius plots only reflect the state of the INTERNET light, not the BROADBAND light, there is though a tendency (an assumption based on probability) that these plots do imply the loss of DSL (BROADBAND) connectivity as well. Of recent weeks I have seen numerous occasions where this is not the case.

Hi Kevin
Many thanks for your detailed response.
I've got a few lights on the modem/router, but the "important" ones appear to be ADSL and PPP. I'm pretty sure that last night the ADSL light was flashing and the PPP light was out. In the past, this has always meant that the link to Plusnet is down. What would be useful to know is where the link has failed. Is there anyway of finding this out?
Cheers
Boz

Re: Internet Down

Townman — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 20:48:01 GMT

Hi Boz,
That light combination would indicate a loss of synch and difficulty re-establishing it. The causes could be many from a failing router / power supply / filter / line noise / line failure / exchange equipment failure. Each of these need to be examined and eliminated.
Posting the data requested in the speed / connection issues post at the top of this forum is a good staring point. Describe your internal wiring. If the router is not in the master socket, post the stats from where it is now, then plug into the master socket and post the revised stats.
Is your line noisy - dial 17070 option 2.
Then follow Adam's advice above -

Quote from: _Adam_Walker_
If that starts to happen again I'd recommend going through the steps in our faults checker here: http://faults.plus.net

Kevin

Re: Internet Down

ReedRichards — Wed, 25 Jun 2014 20:56:51 GMT

Quote from: Boz
...What would be useful to know is where the link has failed. Is there anyway of finding this out?

Only insofar as it must be somewhere between the modem/router in your house and the telephone exchange. And it is the location of the cause of the link failure that you need to find. The actual failure happens when the signal on your line gets drowned out by excessive noise or interference - or possibly because the modem in your router or at the telephone exchange is faulty.

Re: Internet Down

Boz — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:05:51 GMT

Thanks to all of you who've replied. Glad to learn that it is not a problem at the Plusnet end.
I have another modem/router, so I'm using that one for the time being and will wait for any further developments.

Boz

Re: Internet Down

Townman — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:13:47 GMT

Hi Boz,
Did you check your phone line for noise? Do you connect to the master socket? Sight of the router stats would be useful.
Kevin