topic Re: Cancellation fee in Plusnet Feedback

Cancellation fee

baldrick69 — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 10:36:44 GMT

I'm being hounded for a cancellation fee.
I've been with PlusNet for more than 12 months. I got inexplicably cut off for 4 days when I asked for a MAC code.
PlusNet stopped my direct debit (not me) when I switched. And now I'm being hounded for a cancellation fee.
You know what you can do with that don't you.

Re: Cancellation fee

picbits — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 10:52:04 GMT

Who did you switch to and did you use your MAC code when you migrated ?

Re: Cancellation fee

baldrick69 — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 10:58:16 GMT

I switched to BT. BT weren't interested in the MAC code.
I thought, when my broadband was cut off, that it was BT's fault - they'd taken over the line before the stated handover date. Indeed, PlusNet who took over an hour to answer the phone, confirmed that.
PlusNet later admitted they were wrong and refunded my consequent costs as a result.

Re: Cancellation fee

picbits — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 11:02:20 GMT

Hmmm if BT didn't use your MAC Code then this could have been the issue. I'm sure Plusnet will be able to confirm if this was the case or not.

Re: Cancellation fee

baldrick69 — Thu, 10 Apr 2014 16:37:58 GMT

I got a MAC code from PlusNet. I applied for a BT account online. There's was no place to use my MAC code so I assumed they didn't need one. PlusNet then stopped my broadband service for four days and blamed BT. BT said that was not true and blamed PlusNet. PlusNet then said sorry we gave you the wrong information.
Ok. Here's what I didn't know, but do now. PlusNet are chasing me for a cessation fee because the MAC code wasn't used. And this is somehow my fault?
Spoke to PlusNet on the phone who insist the charge stands and that I have to take it up with BT. During the switch from PlusNet to BT I must have spend several hours speaking to both on the phone.
TBH I find BT's charges quite high and probably won't stay with them after my contract expires. I would have considered going back to PlusNet, but not any more. Dreadful customer service.

Re: Cancellation fee

jelv — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 07:54:10 GMT

Quote from: baldrick69
Ok. Here's what I didn't know, but do now. PlusNet are chasing me for a cessation fee because the MAC code wasn't used. And this is somehow my fault?

Correct. Plusnet T&Cs make it quite clear that the cessation charge will apply if a recognised migration process is not used as they have to pay a cessation fee to BT Wholesale in those circumstances.

Re: Cancellation fee

Townman — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 09:53:16 GMT

Sadly your issue here is with BT retail - if their sign up process did not ask for a MAC code, they are not following the Ofcom processes.
To clarify matters, who is your phone line provided by? Changing phone line provider can cause the BB service to be unilaterally ceased, thereby giving rise to BTOR cessation and reconnection fees. I recall a case where changing the billing name on a BT Retail phone line resulted in the cessation of PN broadband giving rise to cessation and reconnection charges.
Not using a mac code (for whatever reason) is going to result in big bad BTOR issuing the current provider a cessation charge.

Re: Cancellation fee

Pettitto — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:31:49 GMT

Hi baldrick69,
I'm sorry for how things appear to have panned out. As Townman and Jelv have correctly pointed out, as a MAC Code was provided but was not used and the transfer of your service was still moved, this would have resulted in cessation - this is chargeable.
You may want to discuss this with your new provider to see if there is anything they can do to help in terms of cost, however, the charge is applicable as the service was cut from us without the use of the MAC Code that we provided.

Re: Cancellation fee

baldrick69 — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:50:09 GMT

Thanks for all the replies.
Yes, I know it's in the T&Cs. I know that now! How many punters read the T&Cs and would know that without finding out as I did?
I just assumed that BT don't ask for MAC codes any more. I'm just a humble user - how would I know?
Anyhow I've told BT and they were very apologetic and immediately advised me to pay the cessation fee as they would reimburse me in full. Definitely got a much warmer feeling from BT's customer service than I did from PlusNet.

Re: Cancellation fee

Pettitto — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:55:09 GMT

Thanks for letting us know that they're getting that sorted out for you.
I'm sorry that you felt that our support hasn't been as helpful as BT's. I appreciate that not everyone reads the T's & C's when signing up to a service/product so can completely understand your position.

Re: Cancellation fee

abstruse21 — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:14:31 GMT

The fact that BT told you to pay the fee and offered to refund it immediately would certainly point to the fact that BT knew full well they should have asked for a MAC code and done the job properly in the first place.
Had they done so you would never have had an issue with Plusnet charging you a cessation fee to complain about..
Sorry. Just pointing out the obvious as BT offering to pay you back shows they know they are the guilty party here.. Giving them credit for putting right a problem they caused in the first instance and not PN is an unusual way of seeing things..
This problem would have been the same whether moving from PN or from any other ISP because of BT's initial mistake not asking for the MAC code.

Re: Cancellation fee

Townman — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:48:26 GMT

Quote from: baldrick69
Definitely got a much warmer feeling from BT's customer service than I did from PlusNet.

That is a little harsh - PN followed the process, BT did not. BT's failure caused you an issue with PN. BT admitted they got it wrong, offered to refund your consequential costs with PN and you suggest that PN were somehow in the wrong.
I hope that when you've had a few months with BT's Indian customer service agents, you still have the same warm feeling from /about them.
Good luck with your new provider... you'll need it - they have already let you down and I guess you have not yet quite moved over

Re: Cancellation fee

baldrick69 — Fri, 11 Apr 2014 18:29:56 GMT

I'm afraid I stand by the feeling towards customer services. The PlusNet girl just repeated the "you must pay" line over and over and refused to let me speak to any one else. The tone given by Chris Pettitt's post above would have been much better.
jim:quote

Re: Cancellation fee

Mark — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 10:34:59 GMT

Quote
MAC Code was provided but was not used and the transfer of your service was still moved, this would have resulted in cessation - this is chargeable.

Chris. To be fair to the customer, the charge relates to jumper recovery at the exchange. As this was Retail to Retail and no LU involved, BTW would not have raised a charge to PN as there would have been no jumpers to recover. This one is a case of "computer says no" and someone clearly hasn't exercised understanding.
How the transfer went through without a MAC is troubling, perhaps Mr Bailey should flag through to some of his counterparts in Retail
BTR have done the right thing in the end, rare I know, but PN have lessons to learn.
M

Re: Cancellation fee

pwatson — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:48:26 GMT

If the move happened without a MAC it would not have been a migration. BTW would treat it two separate orders 1) Cease 2) Provide. The cease would trigger the charging of the cancellation fee in the eyes of BTW's billing system.
Not sure why you think "PN have lessons to learn" - They have simply passed on the charge that BTW have made. BT Retail shoulder the complete blame here. Their website says that they will ask for a MAC if one is needed so it's their fault if the OP wasn't asked for one during signup.

Re: Cancellation fee

Mark — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 12:37:11 GMT

The recharge is only triggered if jumpers have to be recovered. In this case there is no way any jumpers had to be recovered. BTW will not have charged PN.
Retail were wrong, there's no doubt, but PN could have applied discretion rather than insisting on applying a charge which didn't actually exist in the first place.
The lesson for PN is, don't assume

Re: Cancellation fee

itsme — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 13:00:53 GMT

Should not the question be Who placed the cease order? As the line would have had a Plusnet Tag BT could not take the line over without using a MAC. Plusnet would not have raised a cease order as the MAC might not have been used.
Edit: Unless this was a migration from ADSL to Fibre.

Re: Cancellation fee

Oldjim — Sat, 12 Apr 2014 13:38:45 GMT

Quote from: Mark
The recharge is only triggered if jumpers have to be recovered. In this case there is no way any jumpers had to be recovered. BTW will not have charged PN.
Retail were wrong, there's no doubt, but PN could have applied discretion rather than insisting on applying a charge which didn't actually exist in the first place.
The lesson for PN is, don't assume

I have a question which as ex Plusnet staff you should know the answer to
How frequently do BT Openreach generate an invoice and send it to Plusnet
The reason for asking is that I would be very surprised if it is done for each and every occurrence as this would cause havoc in the billing systems
If - and this is purely supposition - the bills are generated monthly Plusnet would have no idea whether a charge has been raised or not until the monthly account comes in. So under your scenario Plusnet could never bill the end user for a cease charge until the actual invoice from BT Openreach arrives and can be checked against the user account

Re: Cancellation fee

Townman — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 10:32:34 GMT

Quote from: Mark
...PN could have applied discretion rather than insisting on applying a charge which didn't actually exist in the first place.
The lesson for PN is, don't assume

I suggest that the real lesson is that no one should assume - you cannot know for sure that there was no charge to PN.
In any event, the T&Cs charge is not for jumper recovery, it is for cessation of service provision WITHOUT using the supplied MAC code. Those are the facts which apply here. Service provided by PN was terminated, without the given MAC code being used (due to the new provider's failure to apply industry agreed process), therefore the T&Cs apply. The user's recourse is with the faulty party, who have done the right thing and covered the user's perceived out of pocket costs. As Jim suggests, to wait for BT's jumper recovery charges and then allocate them to each non-MAC terminating user is simply not practical; even if it were, there'd be hundreds of groans on here that PN were charging customers for something many weeks after they were no longer a customer of PN.
No one in the industry is a charity, not BT, not PN. They all have rules for the provision of service - if you do not read them before signing up and the you don't like the outcome, then I'm sorry for your predicament but tough! People are always fast to complain when they don't like the consequences of THEIR actions, even if such actions were as the result of someone else's failure and then seek to blame the rule setters. Here the user is not out of pocket, the third party who caused the 'problem' have recompensed him... so why the gripe with PN? Some other sour grapes related to their reasons for leaving PN I can only suspect!