topic Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan? in Plusnet Feedback

Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

MrToast — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:25:10 GMT

I'd like to see PlusNet set out a public plan for operating fully IPv6.
I know there has been a trial and discussion in the past about core network upgrades being IPv6 compatible... but that was a while ago now. The global IPv6 trial day was in June 2011. The global 'IPv6 is normally on' day was June 2012.
Whilst IPv4 will be available for quite a while yet the availability and take up of IPv6 is increasing as can be seen from Google's IPv6 Statistics [ http://goo.gl/Yn5jsI ]. The issue that may arise one day is for some application that is only available for IPv6 to appear on the scene. [eg peer to peer without NAT or home appliance needing globally routed address] At that point the IPv6+IPv4 internet becomes bigger than the IPv4 only internet. I know which internet I'd rather be on.
Such an event must be an increasing risk. Can PlusNet shed any light on their targets and progress?

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

AndyH — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:33:28 GMT

I think we are some way from seeing a IPv6 launch.
The biggest thing for me is the endless problems with routers. I am fairly technically minded, but the steps I have had to go to get things working again is mad.

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

w23 — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:45:20 GMT

Would that be such an issue if the PN supplied router were pre-configured with IPv6 enabled as default?
Pretty sure that AAISP use the Technicolor 582 with IPv6 that 'just works'.

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

Anonymous — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 12:48:27 GMT

Quote from: MrToast
The issue that may arise one day is for some application that is only available for IPv6 to appear on the scene.
... ... ...
Such an event must be an increasing risk.

Such as - Microsoft: The Best Xbox One Gaming Experience Will Be Over IPv6

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

AndyH — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:11:32 GMT

Quote from: w23
Would that be such an issue if the PN supplied router were pre-configured with IPv6 enabled as default?

I am sure this is something they are looking at, but what about the 700,000 existing users?

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

w23 — Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:18:13 GMT

PN router firmware can be updated remotely, for those users where this is not possible they'd be no worse off than users of other ISPs who do not yet see IPv6 as important and there's always the 'new router with deferred charge for 12 months option'.

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

MrToast — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 07:40:09 GMT

Quote from: AndyH
I think we are some way from seeing a IPv6 launch.

IPv6 has launched, though maybe not locally.
Global IPv6 usage of Google services is over 3% up from just over 1% a year ago. The USA is ahead at around 8% with France and Germany showing healthy growth. The UK is at around 0.15%. Given that so much of the Internet is driven by the USA the potential for new services enabled by IPv6 must be growing. The UK take up is not a helpful indicator of progress!!
I was chatting with a couple of engineers from a large UK ISP a year ago. They told me they were technically ready to 'switch it on'. The outstanding matters were deciding what to tell customers, training the CS staff and actually deciding to do it.
By not launching IPv6 before its absolutely necessary ordinary users don't have the opportunity to buy IPv6 working network kit as they replace it in the natural course of events. It would be a pity to have to replace early just because of the new IPv6 feature.
Given the interesting point about XBox raised by purleigh I would have thought the time was ripe to gain first mover advantage (apart from AAISP)
I'd like to hear what Plusnet have to say.... Perhaps they too are ready to mitigate the risk. But just haven't quite decided to switch it on yet.

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

AndyH — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 10:53:40 GMT

I just can't see it being done any time soon.
I don't think there has been anyone on the trial that has not had problems (and we're not talking simple things to fix here).
I had an issue yesterday where my IPv6 DHCP Assigned LAN address expired. This caused the radvd service to repeatedly crash/re-start, meaning I was unable to access a lot of basic sites (Facebook/Google). I had to contact the guy at Asus who writes their firmware and found out that there is a bug in the radvd ver 1.9.8 that causes this to happen.
Can you imagine tens of thousands of customers suddenly being able to access popular sites? PN's Support would go into meltdown.

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

MrToast — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:31:32 GMT

Quote from: AndyH
I don't think there has been anyone on the trial that has not had problems

I wasn't on the PN trial but have the impression that it wasn't a trial of a launch product.
IPv6 does work. Service providers have the traffic to show for it. Comcast are migrating 10's of millions of customers. They would be very careful about risk with that size of business.
I don't know if PlusNet are going to respond?

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

w23 — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:35:14 GMT

Quote from: AndyH
I don't think there has been anyone on the trial that has not had problems

I was on the trial and had zero problems, IPv6 was so uneventful for me that I voluntarily quit the trial so that others could have a go.

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

pjmarsh — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:56:45 GMT

I'm on the trial as well, and not had any issues after the initial setup. I've a thread somewhere about setting it up originally, which needed a firmware upgrade and a bit of fiddling, which would be beyond many users, but since then everything has been fine.
Phil

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

dave — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 12:49:17 GMT

Hi,
The full plan and timescales haven't been finalised yet as there's a lot of work that needs doing to roll out IPv6. Where we are at the moment is as follows:
We have a 30 user trial with about 20 customers and 10 staff taking part.
Most of the network is ready, the core has been IPv6 for a long time and we have peering and transit set up, the main change from the network will be to add additional peers once the volume of v6 traffic increases
The Technicolor routers we ship have IPv6 firmware
You can then split out the remainder of the work to do into the following:
Broadband - e.g. DNS, RADIUS, CRM
Hosted services - e.g. Plusnet websites, email, Homepages
3rd Party services and systems - e.g. Broadband Phone, Usenet
Training and support material/help pages
We can roll out IPv6 to customers before all of those systems are ready but there are some things that are prerequisites and those are the ones we'll be concentrating on (we need DNS, RADIUS, CRM and training but could push the button before email is ready). For the time being we will continue with the trial as is, if people drop out of the trial then we'll ask for additional volunteers.
So far the results of the trial are very good, the main problem people seem to have is just getting it to work in the first place. Most people on the trial though haven't used the routers we ship and when we've used those, because we've pre-configured the firmware with the settings it needs, don't need any set up and just work. Once working, most people on the trial don't notice any difference, some things will be v4, some v6 and some a mix of both and it's pretty seamless.

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

AndyH — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:34:44 GMT

Quote from: w23
I was on the trial and had zero problems, IPv6 was so uneventful for me that I voluntarily quit the trial so that others could have a go.

Which router are you using?
Every time I make a firmware change, my v6 seems to break

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

w23 — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:50:42 GMT

Quote from: AndyH
Which router are you using?

Fritz!Box 7390
I have also tested my old Billion 7402NX with no problems

Re: Is there a PlusNet IPv6 Plan?

AndyH — Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:55:50 GMT

Quote from: MrToast
IPv6 does work. Service providers have the traffic to show for it. Comcast are migrating 10's of millions of customers. They would be very careful about risk with that size of business.

IPv6 does work - I think it's the end user hardware that is the issue. 99% of people need something that works out of the box.
Comcast spent a long time trialling v6 (nearly 3 years I think) through different technical trials and pilots. I believe they are only around 30% end user deployed now as it's an area-by-area roll out.
They've got a good list of routers which they recommend end users use - http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/?homegateway It's quite a small list given the number of routers available out there, and even some of those have issues (the Asus for one). The other problem is the devices using v6, as support is still somewhat limited (have a google for Xbox One and Comcast IPv6 to see some unhappy customers).