topic Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised! in Plusnet Feedback

Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Richarkev — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 18:58:07 GMT

Madness. Why does my wife need to know user name and password to report a fault. Plusnet quoted Data Protection issues but why should that stop ability to report a fault. It's irrelevant and certainly don't need personal details with BT.
Disappointed with process for first outage with Plusnet. Unnecessary red tape from a company that says cost wont compromise service.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Gus — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 22:14:04 GMT

What if some claiming to be you asked for your landline/DSL canceled, would you then think its not right for verification checks.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

pwatson — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 22:47:25 GMT

???? Read the post again The OP is asking why data protection checks are required just to report a fault. He said nothing about changes to his account!
I agree it's madness. Perhaps PlusNet can re-train their 1st line support staff so they don't insist on DPA checks unless they're necessary to protect the account i.e what they're there for!

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

w23 — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 23:57:59 GMT

Agreed, there's a world of difference between reporting a fault and requesting any kind of account change.
To report a fault I would have thought it sufficient to provide the phone number and address (for confirmation), maybe the name of the 'account holder' (unless, perhaps, accepting a possible charge for sending an engineer if the fault is found to be with the account holder's equipment - only at this point should the username & password be required).

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

adamwalker — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 13:58:08 GMT

Hi all,
I'm sorry that account security got in the way of reporting this fault. I can see that your wife has been added to the account as an authorized contact so that shouldn't be an obstacle again in the future.
It's worth noting too that faults can be reported online at http://faults.plus.net that obviously assumes that you're still able to connect or have another way of connecting.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

James — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 13:59:22 GMT

It's because there's a potential charge of £60. If it wasn't for this, we wouldn't have an issue with just testing the line.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Richarkev — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 22:40:31 GMT

Sorry Plusnet Complaint Manager but that's process getting in the way of common sense. You must be able to investigate the fault and resolve those that are not customers fault. If it requires a charge then that's when you can get account holders permission. I was told on the call that I made that they would contact me again to advise if a charge is likely. So you seem to contact account holder again anyway.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

James — Wed, 10 Jul 2013 09:06:56 GMT

Yep - Not disputing that at all!
We've added your wife to the account as an authorised user so this shouldn't happen again. I was just trying to offer an explanation as to why we may not have been able to progress the fault, but like you say, a lot of it is down to common sense.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

dratddestroyer — Sun, 21 Jul 2013 14:34:43 GMT

Quote from: _Adam_Walker_
It's worth noting too that faults can be reported online at http://faults.plus.net that obviously assumes that you're still able to connect or have another way of connecting.

That still requires you to log in with a username and password.
My line rental stays with BT for this reason.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

adamwalker — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 12:51:32 GMT

Absolutely, I suppose that all depends on how you'd feel about sharing your login info with your spouse or whoever else you might want to be able to raise a fault on your behalf.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

pwatson — Mon, 22 Jul 2013 14:28:13 GMT

I think the point was that BT allow anyone to report a fault. Very useful for if the line 'owner' is un-contactable because of a fault.
I once reported a fault on my MiL's line and BT fixed it the next day. No need to pretend to be her in order to make the initial report. Clearly, if the fault had been diagnosed as internal it would have required her permission to proceed...

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Capvermell — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 05:09:03 GMT

I felt obliged to continue this discussion after experiencing both mindless and brain dead quoting of the Data Protection Act (an all too regular favourite of card carrying jobsworth type call centre workers who also seem to have a missed vocation for working as traffic wardens or speed gun cops) tonight by no less than three different members of Plusnet staff when trying to simply ask why we had been experiencing regular losses of FTTC sync on the line here over the last few days that are only resolved by power cycling the VDSL BT Openreach modem and the Plusnet Technicolor router.
I am actually the person who gave Plusnet the business in the first place two years ago by switching my mother over to them (with her agreement) when FTTC went live here (previous service with Be Unlimited) and I also filled out the online application form with her (she is now 80 and was then 78 but is a very regular computer user and a twice or more weekly onine grocery home delivery shopper). So I know damn well that there was no facility to create additional "authorised users" of the account when it was set up and that no such field exists today through the online account portal (which I have the username and password for)
But when I speak to your support staff on the phone at 3am tonight (this is the only time of day there isn't a quite deliberately customer repelling call queue of half an hour or more and I also can't sleep tonight due to an injury I suffered in a fall earlier on today) about the loss of sync problem they refuse to answer any of my questions about why our line keeps losing sync despite the fact I have given them the correct user name and password. This is basically because they choose to apply an additional voice gender test on the phone that does not exist at all for customers using the online interface.
I accept that Plusnet must protect its customers against malicious termination of the line or use of house move service to move it elsewhere or any changes of the phone packages or card payment details without the customer's permission. But when someone calling about an existing broadband line does not wish any of those customer damaging things to be done but just wants the broadband service that Plusnet is already being paid to provide on the line to be provided as specified then your staff are acting both Robotically and in a Brain Dead Manner by abusively citing the Data Protection Act as a reason why they will not discuss Plusnet's failure to continue to deliver the already contract FTTC/VDSL service on the line.
The strange thing is that in the last two years I have called Plusnet about several other issues with the line and as long as I have been able to quote the username and password and explain I am another person in the same household who is the technically knowledgeable one there has been no problem.
The reason we all want to phone Plusnet instead of raise queries online is because we know that on the phone we might get some useful information about problems with the FTTC service not working straight away whereas we all know that any online query form will be sat on and either not responded to at all or otherwise certainly not for several days (especially if a weekend is involved).
Someone senior at Plusnet really needs to deal with and sit down hard on these extremely militant new customer crunching night time support workers (who seem like a return to some of the old customer hating telephone support staff who used to be around back in Lee Stafford's day at Plusnet) who actually seem to have almost no customers to support (the phone always goes straight to an adviser with no queue despite the threatened 15 minute wait) but who seem to go out of their way to find unreasonable reasons not to resolve their query. And I repeat if the authorised user is now such an important new tool in telephone customer interactions with Plusnet then why does the online customer account record not provide such a field at all?!!!!
Also lastly surely there is no point at all paying to have expensive support staff on the phone in Yorkshire if they are then going to act in the same kind of mindless unhelpful way that both BT's and many other companies Indian Call Centres are all too rightly infamous for.
I look forward to the comments of a senior Plusnet member of staff on this seemingly very fast growing problem in how telephone support calls are now being dealt with.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

jelv — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 08:26:55 GMT

Some good points made there.
Another thought:
There must be some couples in the same situation as us. The name on the joint bank account used for the direct debit (as shown in the member centre) is Mr J & Mrs A B xxx
If I was away from home on business my wife couldn't report a fault. But she could cancel the direct debit and order a service from a different LLU supplier where a MAC is not required!

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Townman — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 09:16:41 GMT

This is indeed non-thinking irrelevant obstruction. The DPA only comes into play when PlusNET starts to disclose information about the account holder. The key word PROTECTION relates to what PlusNET does with the data it holds.
DPA has nothing to do with talking about / reporting a fault with the service. If the service had been curtailed due to a payment failure, that would be a different matter - explaining that would have been disclosure of personal information.
Plusnet's concern for not breaching DPA did not stop the disclosure of numerous email addresses associated with individual's billing details - this looks like double standards - adherence when not required / unhelpful and a failure to adhear when essential.
PlusNET need to make it easier for relations and friends to help aged users... or just do spousely things.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

MauriceC — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 10:33:52 GMT

I see two illogicalities that need to be addressed.

The whole DPA issue, already well covered but consider the following extrapolation if it agreed to be a valid interpretation.
- You are walking past a house and see smoke / smell gas / see a dropped power line and ring the appropriate service centre to be greeted with "....and are you the registered home owner Sir? Without this detail I cannot take any action." Clearly an incorrect use of DPA, so what's so special about Broadband?

The belief by Plusnet that provision of broadband at premises is to a named User rather than as a 'Service' to the houshold. Current thinking now strongly supports the 'Service' view rather the older Geeky interpretation.

Time to move on and review a few of the internal processes

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Capvermell — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 10:53:29 GMT

Thanks for the support so far on this issue chaps. Also I do apologise to the OP if they feel I am in any way hijacking their thread (since I am a Son who can't report a fault to Plusnet rather than a wife) but I thought it was useful to show the issue had arisen before but has still not been properly addressed by Plusnet.
But anyway just to add that I did point out to the various overnight Plusnet support staff who were so obstructive that surely if a household member smelled gas or if there was a power cut the respective responsible suppliers would not refuse to help those in a household in this emergency situation on the basis that they did not sound as if they were of the same gender or age group as the account owner shown on their system. But no they just blanked me and said that their duties on Data Protection came above and beyond everything else!!!
And just carrying on the likely possible scenarios although I can get the actual customer account holder to speak to Plusnet today, but only if we can ever get through the usually interminable daytime support queue (on which the recorded announcement about the likely length of the wait is never in any way reliable) what if the account owner was actually currently delerious with flu or what if they had just been run over crossing the road and were in intensive care or what if they were a working husband or wife away all week on a business trip. Does Plusnet really expect other household members to go with no broadband service for days or months in this situation even if the other household members can give the account name and password and are calling from a line with the same CLI as the broadband service is on.
If that is Plusnet's actual position then why does not it ask its account holders to specify any other required legitimate authorised users of the service at the time of account creation and why can they also not be easily added to the account through the online customer portal thereafter???
Of course I expect that if I ring back today the problem will not exist at all and that the staff on the day shift will not all be potential prison warders in waiting. Also in the day time they may be a supervisor who is actually allowed to exercise their discretion instead of only following unreasonable procedures to the letter without reason, thought or further question. I expect that Plusnet do probably get a few drunks and crazy people ringing them at night and that this so called "new policy" (which I was told last night has been in effect for 18 months but I did not encounter in several support calls on the account holder's behalf when the service was completely off for a week - due to Openreach's incompetence when maintaining the cabinet - only four months ago) but they should employ staff with enough brain power and common sense to differentiate them from the many normal customers who ring overnight because they work shifts or can't sleep that night.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Chris — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 10:59:27 GMT

Whilst I understand the basis of this thread and the misunderstandings regarding the depth of the DPA from our side (which I'll certainly feed back on), you can get added as an authorised user on the account quite simply. Just ask the account holder to log in and create a ticket with your name requesting that you are added as an authorised user.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Capvermell — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 11:21:44 GMT

Quote from: Chris
Whilst I understand the basis of this thread and the misunderstandings regarding the depth of the DPA from our side (which I'll certainly feed back on), you can get added as an authorised user on the account quite simply. Just ask the account holder to log in and create a ticket with your name requesting that you are added as an authorised user.

Yes I could have done that last night with the username and password I had but it wouldn't have done me any good because you usually take several days to process your support tickets (if they are processed at all which in some cases they aren't). And as the FTTC modem disconnect had happened three times in the last 24 hours the issue was becoming urgent.
So my four questions to you are:-
1. Why does Plusnet not ask account holders to specify any other authorised users that are required when the account is first set up.
2. Why is there not a clear field for authorised users in the customer online portal so the customer (or those they have chosen to give their username and password to) will not forget about their existence and maintain them as required. It is simply not acceptable that this field is opaque and hidden from account holders online and that in most cases there will be no other authorised users at all because an account holder currently usually does not even know this facility exists until one of your jobsworth like staff refuses to help other household members at a time when action to swiftly restore service or log a fault with Openreach is usually now acute and critical
3. Also why can you not retrain your front line staff to not abusively and nonsensically interpret the Data Protection Act (which most of them actually have no clue of the real requirements of) and instead start exercising logic and commonsense to differentiate between calls about faulty service on a line and those actions that could genuinely compromise the account like terminating the service on the line or changing the phone call allowance package.
4. Presumably your phone lines would also not be so gummed up all the time if some customer actions such as downgrading a 76Mbps fibre service to 38Mbps (as there is no longer a data cap on the 38Mbps service and our real world speed here never exceeds 40Mbps and usually not more than 34Mbps but it would save £5 a month) were made available to instead of being withheld from customers through the online account management portal?
There have been numerous cases exposed by the national media of ill trained front line staff who abusively quote the Data Protection Act to obstruct customers and yet this nonsense still continues in most large companies (something which Plusnet has now become). If you are having this much trouble with the DPA's sensible interpretation at Plusnet then I suggest it is really high time that your CEO and their board replaced your current main legal counsel or head lawyer.
Your main legal bods need to get real and surely see that broadband service is actually an essential household utility (like gas, electricity or water) that customers need to work at all times but it is not in any way equivalent to an online bank or building society account on which it is usually both justified and essential to have Fort Knox like (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bullion_Depository for those born long after the Goldfinger James Bond era, although that film still seems to be reshown by ITV at least annually) security systems and only to talk to the actual account holder about their own account.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

Townman — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:36:23 GMT

+1
The correct and appropriate application of the DPA is what is important. If PN staff simply listen to the call, disclose no PERSONAL information and make no changes havng a commercial implication then there is no conflict with DPA.
In the meantime go examine the requirements about not disclosing personal details to third parties - I think one will find that PlusNET / their third parties have clearly breached those requirements, to their customer's detriment.

Re: Wife Can't Report Fault as not authorised!

w23 — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:51:59 GMT

Surely, up to the point where an engineer visit is required (where the account holder or authorised representative must agree to possible charges) there should be no need for any restriction on who reports a fault. Simply confirming the address, telephone number and account name should be sufficient to rule out any malicious/hoax reports (not that I can imagine anyone making a hoax fault report).