topic Re: £25 to leave??????????????????! in Plusnet Feedback

£25 to leave??????????????????!

dgharrison — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 16:24:39 GMT

I left Plusnet earlier this year after rubbish speeds and even worse customer service (days not hours to respond to tickets). I was told there would be a £25 fee to stop my service - (great scam that, charging to stop providing a service!) - to which I requested to be sent copies of when I had agreed to this fee. I did not hear anything else until I had a letter from a debt collection agency. Again I asked for proof that I had agreed to pay this fee, and again I got a letter saying the debt was in the hands of a collection agency.
If this debt goes to court, Plusnet will have to provide evidence that I agreed to this fee, so why will they not provide it now? I wonder if there is some good old fashioned Yorkshire bullying going on here?
Hey Bob, I'm not saying I don't owe the money, I'm just asking for proof that I do. Is that too much to ask?
David Harrison
former Plusnet ( and previously Metronet (they were SUCH a good company) ) customer of 20 plus years.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

James — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 16:30:14 GMT

http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/price_guide.html#broadband_family
Table 1.8.
We actually get charged approximately £30 to cease a broadband service of which we pass on £25 to our customer.
It's never a nice thing to have to do, but unfortunately if we didn't we would have to increase prices overall.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

w23 — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 16:33:00 GMT

A broadband 'cease' charge is made by BT Openreach if broadband is 'removed' from a line (rather than transferred to another supplier), this can (and usually is) passed on by the supplier to the customer.
See section 7. here: http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/addcharges/pes_statement

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

dgharrison — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 17:22:02 GMT

And this is why I left Plusnet. Why can't you stop quoting your terms and conditions and do what I have asked: for the fourth time: "Please send me proof that I agreed to these terms and conditions." It's not a lot to ask. A signature? A dated acceptance form? Just some proof that when I signed up to Plusnet you made me aware that you were going to charge me to leave.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

Chris — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 17:31:51 GMT

At the point of signup you're presented with a page which tells you the T&Cs, you have to tick a box to say you accept these before you can continue with signup. So through completing the signup process you've agreed to them.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

dgharrison — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 18:15:07 GMT

I still want to see the proof, and so will the judge if this goes to court.
I did not sign up with Plusnet. I was a Metronet customer and was transferred over without being asked.
Please either show me the proof or call off your bully-boys / debt collectors.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

Oldjim — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 18:25:55 GMT

did you read this http://www.metronet.co.uk/support/broadband/products/cessation_charges.shtml?mnsession=dcfffdca37be31c03b9f93bb333d0877 and you would have been emailed advising of the change giving the required 30 days notice of the change to the T&C

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

dgharrison — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 19:35:06 GMT

No, I don't believe I ever received that message, but it was at least 5 years ago, so who knows! Please send me proof that I a/ received this message, and b/ agreed o it.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

pwatson — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 20:02:15 GMT

I think you're on a hiding to nothing here - I suspect that the email said that acceptance was implied to there's no need to provide proof of acceptance as you continued to use the service.
It's your word against PlusNet and I think you'll lose!

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

dgharrison — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 20:10:27 GMT

I'm only asking them to prove they sent it and I received it. Surely a company that has voice recordings of our conversations with them going back over several years, keeps important stuff like that? Like any claimed debt, if there is no proof the debt is owed then payment cannot be demanded.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

w23 — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 20:12:49 GMT

Quote from: dgharrison
customer of 20 plus years.

In this case you would have had two notifications sent, one when the 'cessation charge' was introduced in 2008 and a second when it was increased in 2009.
I cannot say whether Plusnet can prove that you actually received these notices such a long time ago but they would have been sent to your notified email address, you would have had at least 10 days in which to 'not accept' these charges by giving notice to terminate your account. I'm afraid this is how these things work and I doubt if you'd get far disputing it in court. It would also have been clearly shown in the member centre under your account details
I also think the cessation charge is unfair but OFCOM has ruled otherwise and the majority of ISPs pass the charge on when they are charged by Openreach or BT Wholesale (unclear which one originates the charge - sorry), many ISPs (BT Retail for example) charge the 'full' £30 rather than the £25 that Plusnet currently charge.
[Edit] notice time corrected.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

Oldjim — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 20:13:34 GMT

They will have no idea whether you received it - their responsibility is to advise you of any change to the T&C's by email to the registered contact email address
Regarding acceptance - this is the relevant part of the T&C which is standard
Note that the service note will probably have been archived

Quote
Changing these Terms (notification)
Sometimes, we will need to change the charges and the Terms and Conditions of the service. We will publish details of all changes online at http://www.plus.net.
We will also let you know about a price increase or a change to the Terms and Conditions that we believe is likely to cause you material disadvantage at least one month before it happens. We will let you know about other price changes and changes to the Terms and Conditions via email to the contact email address on the account and by adding a service note to your account. Account Service Notes can be viewed at http://contactus.plus.net/
For changes we need to make to meet legal and regulatory requirements, we may not be able to meet the timescale detailed in paragraph 44. We will let you know about these changes as soon as we can.
If we have made a change which is to your material disadvantage, you will not have to pay a charge (excludes any charges or payments we have deferred) if you decide to end your agreement early, unless the price guide says otherwise. However, once we have told you about such a change, you must let us know that you want to end the agreement within 10 days.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

redsetter — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 20:22:46 GMT

being in the hands of a "collection agency" doesn't alter a thing,to many people are bullied by these companies' regardless if the debts owed or not.request proof from this agency that this fee is payable,you are perfectly entitled to place any claim of a "debt" in dispute,you will probably find that it will simply passed on,debt collectors don't like disputes only people to roll over.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

ReedRichards — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 20:47:58 GMT

At some point in the past I was informed of the £25 leaving charge. It stuck in my mind because it struck me as a bit steep, but then it would only apply in the event of my ceasing to require broadband (i.e. not in the case of a transfer to another ISP) so I thought it would never apply to me whilst I'm still alive. Why does it apply to you, dgharrison? Have you given up on broadband completely?

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

w23 — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 20:50:27 GMT

Reasons could include switching to a cable ISP (or even 3G / 4G) rather than 'giving up broadband completely'

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

pwatson — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 21:54:36 GMT

Quote from: dgharrison
I'm only asking them to prove they sent it and I received it.

Actually, you weren't...

Quote from: dgharrison
Please send me proof that I a/ received this message, and b/ agreed to it.

Quote from: dgharrison
to which I requested to be sent copies of when I had agreed to this fee.

Quote from: dgharrison
"Please send me proof that I agreed to these terms and conditions." It's not a lot to ask. A signature? A dated acceptance form?

Doesn't change the fact that it's your word ("I didn't get the email, honest m'lud") against PlusNet's ("We automatically sent an email to all the registered address on our customer database and changed our web pages to reflect the updated T&Cs")
PlusNet can, in all likelihood, no more prove that they sent the email than you can prove that you didn't receive it but the balance of probability comes down in their favour...

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

dgharrison — Mon, 08 Jul 2013 22:58:56 GMT

Lots of debate but Plusnet. seem to have gone quiet.
I do not believe it is my responsibility to prove I do NOT owe this money. If that were the way it worked anyone could send anyone else a bill and demand payment.
I believe it is Plusnets' duty, when accusing me of owing them money, to have the courtesy to write to (or email) me with a request for the money, which they have never done, and to include proof that I agreed to be responsible for that fee, which they have never done.
I asked Plusnet, in a phone call, to discontinue my broadband service as I had two broadband lines (business and personal) and with the advent of fibre only needed one. I was told of the £25 cessation fee which I queried and asked for the paperwork to be sent to me confirming I had agreed to this fee. Instead, the next contact I had was from the debt collectors Plusnet had set on me. I told the debt collectors I was still waiting for the above info from Plusnet and eventually I got a letter from Plusnet saying I had been told on the phone of the cessation charge and that I had "accepted electronically" the revised terms and conditions. My memory is not as good as it used to be, and we could be going back 6 plus years here so it is understandable that I have no recollection of "accepting electronically". If I did, and I am sure Plusnet would have kept a record of it, if they let me see a copy of that record then I will pay the fee immediately. However without that proof I will not pay this bill, just as I would not pay any other unsubstantiated demand for money.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

RPMozley — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 02:19:07 GMT

Unfortunately you accepted it by continuing your subscription at the time this change was brought in. The original T&C you signed up with most probably included a clause to essentially notify you of any change in T&C and give you a grace period to either accept change (by doing nothing) or cancel your agreement. This sort of clause is very widely used.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

Luzern — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 06:14:59 GMT

Good luck to the OP when he loses and costs are added to the £25.

Re: £25 to leave??????????????????!

w23 — Tue, 09 Jul 2013 06:27:09 GMT

Quote from: dgharrison
Lots of debate but Plusnet. seem to have gone quiet.

Given the nature of the original post I wouldn't expect a response from Plusnet outside normal working hours TBH.