topic Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts in Plusnet Feedback

Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

fredor — Thu, 21 May 2009 12:28:53 GMT

Why is it that PlusNet CSC people have difficulty reading simple questions?
Having gone onto the ADSL2+ trial, I made a simple request to have my min SNR reduced from 12Db to 9Db and received this reply:-
"Have you tried the connection with *ONLY* the broadband equipment plugged directly into the mastersocket (through a different microfilter/splitter) and no other things plugged into any other extension sockets in the house/premises?
We understand that this can be inconvenient. However, this is a common reason for a lot of faults. This is especially important for accounts which have never worked, or if you have installed any other equipment which plugs into the phoneline.
It is helpful when ruling out hardware faults for you to try an alternative modem or router, or try your equipment on another active broadband line. Please confirm if you have been able to do this.
If this does not help, please visit http://faults.plus.net for further assistance."

No mention of min SNR!!!!
Previously, when on ADSL it took something like 23 memo's to get the min SNR changed.
Life would be much simpler and less time-consuming if the "Analysts" would quite simply read the question and reply with something that relates to the question.

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

James — Thu, 21 May 2009 12:37:30 GMT

I actually think it's a fair comment.
I don't see any issue in making sure that your connection signal is as good as it can be prior to submitting a request with BT to have your SNR changed.

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

Be3G — Thu, 21 May 2009 12:51:11 GMT

James, with all due respect that ticket response was clearly a stock reply which was not appropriate in the OP's situation. I agree with the sentiment that there's no harm in making sure everything's in as good a condition as it can be, but note that the OP wanted a SNR reduction which to me implies that everything's already working well. The agent's ticket response was clearly from the POV of a fault being raised, which was not what the OP wanted.
(Inappropriate stock replies are a bugbear of mine - with any company, not particularly Plusnet.)

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

fredor — Thu, 21 May 2009 13:01:22 GMT

I disagree (with James that is).
My connection on my side is probably as good as it can be. I have gone through all this palaver just a over a month ago!!
Surely you don't think 23 memo's are required to change the min SNR!!
I am 3.5km from the DSLAM with an attenuation of 43.5Db( ADSL2+).
Max download speed is 7616kbps - Actual 6259kbps with an SNR of 12.7Db.
What is the point in looking for problems that aren't there!!!!

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

petejackson — Thu, 21 May 2009 14:02:04 GMT

I agree with you Fredor that our agent hasn't addressed your question head on, nor has James I think, understood fully your point.
It's taken me a while to see what has happened here. I reckon that the agent replying to your ticket didn't understand that you are on the ADSL2+ trial - and you hadn't mentioned it in your ticket.
Usually, asking us to decrease SNR isn't part of the support we provide if a) there is no current 'fault' and/or the service is unreasonably slow or b) there has been a fault and the SNR has not readjusted to previous values.
Requesting a change to SNR is not something we do ourselves but rather we have to raise it with the diagnotics team at Wholesale. It's not something that they would consider without due reason and may result in problems with your service that would subsequently need to be resolved.
In summary, then I think the agent has hurriedly made the assumption you have a fault with ADSL (not ADSL2+) and given a 'stock' response. That's not right I agree with you about that but, without a clear reason as to why you want the SNR decreasing, I can see why that happened.
To get onto your actual request, ADSL2+ ought to self-adjust its SNR for optimum reliability and speed (much better and more often than for ADSL), and the advice I've been given is 'hang fire' for a bit. Having said that, how much slower is your connection? We can escalate this for you, but I've been advised that it's not a simple escalation for us and rectifying it afterwards (if it doesn't work) may not be as timely as we might like.
Let us/me know if you have seen poor speeds for several days and we'll move it forward for you.

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

scootie — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:01:18 GMT

or as its a trial maybe trying out one of the new options avabliable on adsl2+ 21cn.http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,76099.0.html
The one of intrest to you would be the stabilty options. The finer detail of this option i dont know to be 100% true but iam sure fletch/ jameseh who ever ends up with the task will run through the details of it with you before placing any order to BTw

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

James — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:05:09 GMT

Just a piece of advice.
You really don't want to try any of the other stability methods if you're looking to get the target SNR lowered.
Take it from me

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

scootie — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:14:44 GMT

so are all orders on 21cn at the mo have been placed on the standard 6db option and no one so far has been put on the stable 9/12db or the super stable 15db options

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

James — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:15:57 GMT

Stable and Superstable are not about 9dB or 12dB target noise margins.
It's about the aggressiveness of the DLM, which will ultimately result in an increase in SNR, but it's not about 6/9/12.
But yes, they are all being placed on the Stable service option.

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

scootie — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:24:34 GMT

my DLM must have mike tyson on it VS my router (ronnie corbett) as it jumps up to 15/18db from 9db at the first sign of trouble
is there an anarchist setting for the DLM to keep the state control of BTw at bay on the snr front :)?

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

Anotherone — Thu, 21 May 2009 16:51:30 GMT

oo err

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

fredor — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:21:18 GMT

Quote from: Peter
I agree with you Fredor that our agent hasn't addressed your question head on, nor has James I think, understood fully your point.
It's taken me a while to see what has happened here. I reckon that the agent replying to your ticket didn't understand that you are on the ADSL2+ trial - and you hadn't mentioned it in your ticket.
Usually, asking us to decrease SNR isn't part of the support we provide if a) there is no current 'fault' and/or the service is unreasonably slow or b) there has been a fault and the SNR has not readjusted to previous values.
Requesting a change to SNR is not something we do ourselves but rather we have to raise it with the diagnotics team at Wholesale. It's not something that they would consider without due reason and may result in problems with your service that would subsequently need to be resolved.
In summary, then I think the agent has hurriedly made the assumption you have a fault with ADSL (not ADSL2+) and given a 'stock' response. That's not right I agree with you about that but, without a clear reason as to why you want the SNR decreasing, I can see why that happened.
To get onto your actual request, ADSL2+ ought to self-adjust its SNR for optimum reliability and speed (much better and more often than for ADSL), and the advice I've been given is 'hang fire' for a bit. Having said that, how much slower is your connection? We can escalate this for you, but I've been advised that it's not a simple escalation for us and rectifying it afterwards (if it doesn't work) may not be as timely as we might like.
Let us/me know if you have seen poor speeds for several days and we'll move it forward for you.

To clarify things, on ADSL I was initially running a min SNR of 6dB but this was unstable during peak hours. So I asked for this to be increase to 9dB and interleaving was added. This gave me a stable connection which synced at around 6800kbps. Under these conditions, I had a stable and acceptable connection. Going on the ADSL2+ trial, attenuation increased (41 to 43.5dB), interleaving was turned off and the min SNR was 12dB. This gave a lower sync speed ca. 6400kbps and for a few weeks was fairly stable. However, during one particular night about a week ago, there was a blip in the system and for some reason my router rebooted at a sync speed of ca. 5500kbps. This in turn reduced the IP profile to 4500kbps which no doubt I am saddled with for some days.
This blip was temporary and there is no point in looking for faults because they no longer show. Clearly if the system is going to reboot occasionally, I am better off with a lower min SNR to avoid falling in to the trap of the dreaded low IP Profile.
Upload speeds are significantly better with ADSL2+ but download speeds seem to be marginally worse although any comparison to date has been with different min SNRs.
I am not sure what happens with SNR in ADSL2+. When you say it self adjusts, does it affect the min SNR or does it just affect the current SNR value? If I reboot the router it invariably comes up with an SNR around 12dB.
I would certainly like to have the min SNR reduced to 9dB, if this can be done with ADSL2+.
What is the position regarding interleaving with ADSL2+?

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

fredor — Fri, 22 May 2009 09:53:42 GMT

STAGE 2
"To get this request actioned you need to follow these instructions:
For us to be able to investigate this as a fault you need to fill in our automated fault form.
The reason why we ask you to do this is that when you have completed the questions it starts a series of tests, the results of these are available within 4 hours. Our faults engineers then look at the results and advise you further or run more details tests.
You will get an update within 48 hours of completing the automated fault process. Please make sure that your mobile number is on your account so we can contact you easier and that your modem or router is on for the duration of the fault.
The link for the faults process is:
http://faults.plus.net
Please also be aware that the tests that you are asked to perform are very important as BT will charge you an abortive visit charge of £144+VAT if the fault is found to be in you property (anything after the master socket).
Also there is a reason why the SNR is set as it was, you could get dropping connections if the SNR is reduced and the automatic systems may just increase it again."

Does this mean ADSL2+ is expected to perform worse than ADSL?
The only fault I have is trying to get PlusNet to reduce the min SNR!!!

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

James — Fri, 22 May 2009 09:56:57 GMT

Hi Fredor,
I'm sorry you've been having trouble still.
If you do raise a fault via the link that has been quoted, your fault will be passed to one of our analysts that deal solely with ADSL2+ faults and they'll be in the best position to raise an issue with BT to ask them to reduce your target SNR to 6dB.
If you could do that, I would be very grateful and hopefully should result in your target SNR being lowered.

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

fredor — Fri, 22 May 2009 13:51:05 GMT

I actually want it reduced to 9dB. System would not cope with 6dB during peak hours with ADSL. Would you expect it to be similar with ADSL2+?
Getting the optimum performance is a matter of trial and error. I know what was required with ADSL but ADSL2+ may well be different. If I get the opportunity to try 9dB, I may want to then try 6dB or 6dB plus interleaving but it usually best to take one step at a time.
I have completed the fault survey for you but some of the questions were irrelevant as I don't have a problem as such.
adie:quote

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

James — Fri, 22 May 2009 13:58:10 GMT

I don't see any issue with testing 9dB but would advise against 6dB, interleaved or not given your previous difficulties.

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

fredor — Fri, 22 May 2009 14:09:44 GMT

OK we'll see what 9dB delivers.

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

fredor — Fri, 22 May 2009 17:56:56 GMT

STAGE 3
"We're sending this message because you've reported a fault with your
broadband.
To help find out what's causing the problem, the Broadband Fault Checker
will ask you a series of questions at:
http://faults.plus.net/
If you have to leave the checker, you can come back later and pick up
from where you left off. Make sure you answer all of the questions
within the next two days or you'll have to start again.
If you need any help or you'd prefer to talk to us in person, give us a
call on 0845 1400200"
I don't believe I have a fault other than being 3.5km from the DSLAM.
I have a problem trying to get across I would like the min SNR reduced to 9dB.

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

petejackson — Fri, 22 May 2009 18:33:01 GMT

Quote from: fredor
I don't believe I have a fault other than being 3.5km from the DSLAM.
I have a problem trying to get across I would like the min SNR reduced to 9dB.

I think we should all be very clear that reduction of SNR (especially on ADSL2+) is not something that can be done 'on demand' from Wholesale, I'm sorry if you have been given the impression it can. By your own admission you don't have a fault but clearly I'd like us to come to a reasonable understanding and I'd like your issue to be properly understood and investigated. You have chosen to take part in the ADSL2+ trial and I suggest this conversation would now be better conducted in that arena rather than your becoming frustrated at our support staff who are following our standard processes.
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/board,62.0.html

Re: Reading Skills of CSC Analysts

fredor — Sun, 24 May 2009 14:37:51 GMT

I have added the SNR query to the 21CN forum.
Bach to the rant.
STAGE 4
"Passing to correct department for diagnosis."
Why is this necessary :-
"Has your Question been answered?
If you're happy that your Question has been dealt with fully, please 'CLOSE THIS Question' using the button below.
If you need to give us more details, or you need us to provide further information, 'REPLY TO THE SUPPORT TEAM' and let us know.
Please note: You have 14 days to select an option. If you don't choose one within this time, your Question will automatically close."
Clearly the question has not been answered.