topic Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property in Plusnet Feedback

Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 12:28:43 GMT

Plusnet keep giving me commitments to set up broadband at a new build property which they seem unable to fulfill.
I was going to be moving to a new build property on the 12 December 2012 and wanted phone and broadband to provided by Plusnet as they were my current provider. So six weeks before the move (on 1st November -ticket 61723452) I requested provison of phone and broadband for the property. I was told that I should have a simultaneous provision of phone and broadband by a couple of days after I moved in. Over the following weeks I get being reassured that this would happen.
Unfortunately, a week before I moved I was inform that Plusnet had only been able to arrange a OpenReach appointment for the 15th January, while my neighbour who had informed BT later in November of their move received an OpenReach appointment set for the 14th December.
Again I asked would there be a simultaneous provision of Broadband and phone on the 15th January. I was given clear verbal and written commitments that this happen.
Unfortunately, on the 15th of January after the OpenReach visit I had phone but no Broadband. When I rang to enquire about this I had an email back from a Plusnet manager apologising for it not being made clear in advance that that it was not possible to simultaneously provision of phone and broadband in these circumstances. (I was not happy with such a response as it totally ignored the commitments Plusnet had made to me).
I am now being told that it will be Tuesday 22nd January before Plusnet can provide an update on when they may be able to provide Broadband. So it could be ten working days from the 22nd February or it could be later, they are not able to tell me at this time.
It appear to me that Plusnet is utterly unable to keep it commitments as regards the connection of Broadband for new build properties. Since November 1st they have been taking money of me for line rental, phone and broadband provision, yet provided no service. False commitments from Plusnet have resulted in considerable inconvenience and now Plusnet is failing even to suggest a date or timescale for Broadband connection. I understand that things can go wrong but it how you deal with things going wrong that counts and giving people accurate and timely information on what is happening.
Plusnet does not appear to have effective systems for dealing with Broadband provision at new properties.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

Townman — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:31:48 GMT

Tony,
Not much help, but this is a frequent failing of BTw - see here http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,110985.msg951604.html#msg951604 - what you have reported rather looks like BTOR / BTw breaking the rules by giving preferential service to BT Retail. If this can be proven, it needs to be reported to Ofcom.
I would suspect that they will claim that the later order benefitted from a cancelled appointment. Policing the level playing field rules with BTOR / BTw is I guess very difficult.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 13:54:54 GMT

Thanks townman,
I see from your posts you have had an even worse time than me.
In my case it could be unfair competition from BT or it could be that Plusnet do not have the systems in place to dynamically respond to failings by BT openreach. As well as failing to effectively pursue problems with Openreach on behalf of their customers, Plusnet do not seem to be honestly communicate realistic expectations with customers or to keep them adequately informed when things do start to go wrong.
If these are gaps in the service being offered by Plusnet then it is important that all customers who plan to use them for provision of Broadband at a new build property are fully informed of Plusnet limitations in advance.
Tony

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

zubel — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:03:05 GMT

Hi Tony,
Whilst your situation is unfortunate, I'd echo townman in that it does seem like another failing of BTw/O.
Plusnet do have systems in place to try to address these systemic failings, but at the end of the day Plusnet are only humans, and will also make mistakes. Generally when discovered, every attempt is made to rectify the situation in as timely a fashion as possible.
Unfortunately, you've posted at the weekend when the Digital Care team aren't on-shift. However, one of those should spot this post and investigate on your behalf. Can I suggest you give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they can do for you?
B.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

Townman — Sat, 19 Jan 2013 15:35:49 GMT

Tony,
Yes indeed I have had some trials and tribulations the source of which has not been clear and not attributable to a single cause. What I can though say without contradiction is that PN have kept me informed of what's happening and really pulled out the stops to help keep my business on air. However, when all is said and done they are largely at the mercy of BTw/OR.
One thing though that you do seem to ave fallen foul of is the confusion over dual ordering of a line and BB. There systems to be inconsistency on this, which if it is the A&E I am sure the DCT will address internally.
Hope your provision is sorted soon with no more hiccups!
Cheers,
Kevin

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:39:06 GMT

Thanks Barry & Kevin,
Your reassurances are good to hear and I will be happier if intervention by the digital care team leads to a more rapid resolution of the the troubles I have experienced.
Yet, if PN have systems in place to deal with failings by BTw/OR they seem to have completely broken down on this occasion and action needs to be taken to ensure that this does not happen to other customers. Also, if PN is fully aware of systematic failings in BTw/OR why is it not being up front with customers when making commitment of service (to make false commitments and then try to hide behind delays by their supplier that they knew would happen is less than honest). I signed up to a years line rental during November basing my decision on the information that they delivered to me, which they were fully aware was false. Perhaps this practice is common across the sector but it appears to be utterly immoral (if not illegal) and should challenged.
Yes, I do want my issues resolved but I also feel that actions could be taken to reduce the number of people who experience similar problems in the future and that when they do their issues are effectively managed without them having to start broadcasting their difficulties on this forum or other media.
PN seem to have set up a situation where they standardily offer customers no recompense for failures in service commitments that they knew were likely to occur. I do realise that to stadardily offer recompense for service failure could lead to an overall cost increase for PN (which it would have to pass on to customers) but alternatively it could provide the impetus for the organisation to evolve so that service failures occur less often and lead to an overall cost reduction. In the long term the cost of change may be less that the cost the could incur, If it becomes widely known that PN is knowingly acting to try to dupe customers by offering service commitments it knows are likely to be unfulfilled.
I do also feel rather aggrieved over the PN manager's apology covered a failure to 'make it clear' that simultaneous provision would not be possible in my circumstances when in fact I had received verbal and written commitment that simultaneous provision would be provided to me.
I have also heard a rumour that PN will not be paying me back the money they have taken from me while offering me no service, but offering the refund as a credit against future service. So I asked an agent on their helpline yesterday who reassured me that the refund would be delivered to my bank account. Should I trust the commitment given me by PN or will they give a verbal commitment then say their agent needs more training?
I am sorry for seeming untrusting of the integrity communication from PN but my experience has lead me suspect that PN is intentionally operating systems that lead to their customers being misinformed. Can information from PN call centre agents be trusted or do they just say what is needed to keep the customer happy which PN will then failed to deliver ?
regards
Tony

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

jelv — Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:15:40 GMT

My experience is that Plusnet don't seem able to handle simultaneous provides very well. If you had ordered the phone from BT and the broadband from Plusnet and got a simultaneous provide code from BT which you gave to Plusnet I think you'd have been up and running. I came across this in the context of home moves where I was once told that Plusnet couldn't do a simultaneous move of phone and broadband.
My understanding is that although both services are from the same supplier, a simultaneous provide code is needed so that OpenReach/BT Wholesale know there are tied orders to be done on the same day. Can you see a simultaneious provide code in any of the tickets relating to the order?

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:16:55 GMT

jelv,
THANK YOU !!!!
Well, next time. I will know to ask PN for the simultaneous provide code. I wish I had known this when I first ordered. It is excellent advice for anyone thinking of moving to a new build and want provision of Broadband from PN.
My only question is, why does PN not always ensure it has a simultaneous provide code when customers ask for a simultaneous provide?
Tony

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

adamwalker — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:59:51 GMT

@TonyJames

I've just taken some time to review this with one of our provisioning managers.
In all honesty, human error led to this not being handled as a sim order. We've noticed a likely reason for exactly why this happened and we're making sure this is being fed back to the agents that handled this incorrectly.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
I note on a ticket you've raised, you asked for a refund for services paid for since before the move, I'm happy to do that. However you also asked for a refund of any previously unused service, however I see nothing noted on your account about any previous issues,.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:39:45 GMT

Hello Adam,
Thank you for clarifying that PN's failure to provide broadband for a new build property occurred due to human error, rather than a breakdown of the technical hardware need to deliver this service.
Thank you also for refunding three invoices to my bank account. I am assuming that these are the charges that were made for my broadband and phone package and line rental for November, December and January. I could not locate the invoices that you refer to in your message.
Presently I still do not have Broadband and still have not been told when Plusnet intend to fulfill the order for Broadband that I made at the start of November. Perhap I will find out tomorrow, but PN is not presently able to tell me if it will be able to tell me tomorrow or not. I assume you find this situation as unsatisfactory as myself. Perhaps you could shed some light on when PN will be able let me know a date for Broadband provision at my new build property?
Are you aware of the percentage of successful provision of broadband to a new build by the date initially promised by Plusnet. Is it an area where PN have track record of failure to deliver the their promised commitment due to human error or technical breakdown?
Tony
.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

adamwalker — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:10:22 GMT

No problem, yes those refunds were for the previous 3 months of subscription charges.

Quote
Perhaps you could shed some light on when PN will be able let me know a date for Broadband provision at my new build property?

I'll look into that shortly and let you know ASAP.

Quote
Are you aware of the percentage of successful provision of broadband to a new build by the date initially promised by Plusnet. Is it an area where PN have track record of failure to deliver the their promised commitment due to human error or technical breakdown?

I'm not personally aware, I'm also not aware that this has been a consistent issue to be honest.
EDIT: I'm just asking a member of our provisioning team to have a look at this now. I'll aim to get you an update ASAP.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:30:43 GMT

Thanks Adam,
You really seem to be making a serious effort to sort this out ..... and make sure it is less likely to happen again.
Tony

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

zubel — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:49:33 GMT

You must be new here, Tony
The Digital Care team is the main reason I recommend Plusnet. Even if things go wrong, (heaven forbid!) I know that there is true engagement here on the forums, and the desire to better the company as a whole.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

adamwalker — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 17:17:15 GMT

Thanks guys,
FYI Tony, we've just had another look at this and our suppliers are having an issue building a record on their database for your address for some reason. As addresses have to be matched against telephone numbers and other such details that prevents us from placing an order until that's fixed. A colleague of mine on the provisioning team is dealing with getting that sorted.
Adam

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 22:00:02 GMT

Adam,
Thanks for arranging for someone to pursue this. I do hope they find a way of sorting it out soon.
Tony

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 06:50:53 GMT

When is a refund not a refund?
When it is from Plusnet ..... who seem to be acting in a rather underhand and dishonest manner.
How do you do you misdirect a customer into believing they have a full refund without actually giving one.
First step promise them a full refund to direct to their bank account.
Step two; 'refund' three months of invoices and tell customer that all services have been refunded for those months
so a full refund has been given?
Well, you refund as credit note (directly breaking a firm commitment given to the customer) Why do this ? So you can try to trick them....
Well, you refund the invoices but keep charges on their account for Phone Packages 'used' during the last three months they had no service
(You now see the need for it to be credit note, you are not meant to be able keep track of them reducing the credit note against these charges but if they refund to a bank account you would notice an invoice that contained three extra months of phone packages)
Also you do not make a pro-rata refund of the pre-paid annual line rental as this is non-refundable (even when PN do not provide a line for three months, is that legal???) - I did specifically request a refund of line rental charges
You then remove discounts from the broadband package so the customer will pay more for their service than before.
That is how you pretend to give full discount while
Tony
PS- My address and phone number were showing up on the ADSL checker early yesterday morning, so BT seem to have got their act in gear, but has Plusnet offered date for Broadband provision?? NO!! (even though I emailed them yesterday to tell them the line was now shoeing on the the ADSL checker.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

adamwalker — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:19:14 GMT

The refund was done for all payments made since the faults ocurred so I don't see how myself or anyone has been dishonest with you. This was an actual refund and should return the funds to your bank account within a few days if they haven't landed already.
You also have 11 discounts of £3.25 remaining to be taken too. Discounts sometimes need to be removed and readded when accounts are changed or discounts are adjusted.
Regarding a date we're unable to give you one yet I'm afraid simply as we're waiting for an issue to be fixed that's preventing us from raising the broadband order still.
I'm sorry to see that you've still got no service so I'll speak with a manager to get an experienced agent to pick that ticket up and deal with it as a priority.
Please make sure you get in touch with me when you've been reconnected and I'll refund the remaining portion of paid for downtime at that point.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 12:59:37 GMT

Thank you Alan,
No payments are present in my bank account as yet but I a sure they will appear quite soon.
I feel the main outstanding question ( aside from a broadband connection) is line rental.
I understood that when I paid for a years line rental it would be non-refundable if for instance I left but I was not aware that it would also be nonrefundable if PN failed to be able to provide a line.
I did ask for refund of line rental and also more broadly requested refund for all service paid for but not delivered.
but as I type I am talking to the options team that are to resolve but need to talk to the escalations team,
tony

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

TonyJames — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:36:17 GMT

I have now had confirmation that PN will connect my broadband by the 1st Feb, refunds for all services (including the the nonrefundable line rental) for the last three months will be placed in my bank account and I will be given 50% off my broadband package for the next twelve months.
Still a little unsure why I had to do all that chasing to achieve this outcome which seems to me to be the sort of outcome that everyone would feel was fair and expected.
I am especially surprised over the apparent difficulty to refund annual line rental for a period for which no line rental was paid - After asking for a refund of all charges for broadband, phone and line rental that had not been provided, I was clearly told that I had been refund for last three invoices and there were no other service that had been paid for and undelivered. Yet, line rental had not been refunded!!!! The when I rang it had to go from one manager to another- why so difficult over something that would seem common sense -unless it was an attempt to provide poor service to the less than persistent
Does PN often try to refuse to refund line rental charges?
Tony.

Re: Failure to provide broadband for new build property

tijara33 — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:52:54 GMT

I've no idea because I've had exemplary service from PN, as do most of their customers. You've just been unlucky. It's like when I left AOL/ Talk Talk to join PN & they tried to charge me £120 for breaking my contract. I'd been out of contract for nearly 5 years!! I had to threaten them with legal action for harassment before they relented.
Hope that you'll soon be sorted out.