topic Re: BT Engineer visits in Plusnet Feedback

BT Engineer visits

maranello — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:12:56 GMT

Firstly, I'm glad this sub-topic exists, it allows me to let off a bit of steam rather than get aggressive on the phone to the CSC (If Michael is reading this, please accept my apologies)
Anyway, on with the rant.......
In trying to resolve a 'fault' on my broadband connection, I have now had BT to my property 4 times. Each time it appeared that the engineer was expecting to do little more than a 10 minute monitoring of the connection. Clearly this is unlikely to isolate the cause of the large fluctuations of the SNR margin which are random and ultimately result in a dropped connection when the margin gets too low. Even though I have done all the tests and checks to isolate my internal wiring or equipment as a potential cause, BT will not take any notice of my own records of router stats and disconnections, and seem reluctant to check what, in my uninformed opinion, is most likely to be the source of the problem, the quality of the line and connections between my master socket and the local cabinet. This after all is exposed to wind and rain, and the underground sections have potential leaking man-hole covers (I counted at least 7 covers between the pole and the cabinet). As one engineer said, there are many connections which could potentially be suspect.
The problem is that I would have expected each successive engineer visit to involve checks in increasing detail rather than do nothing more than the minimum they can get away with when no fault is apparent at the time. Each visit potentially could cost me £169, and if I don't personally get charged it would not surprise me if BT charged Plusnet. It is also a waste of my time, a waste of the engineers' time, and since it does not fix the problem I have to get Plusnet staff involved yet again. I am rapidly losing confidence that it will ever get fixed, and starting to think that my only option is to simply put up and shut up.
I believe that Plusnet recognise that there is a fault, and appear on the surface to be trying to escalate the thoroughness of the checks required on my connection. But this message does not seem to be getting through to BT, and I don't understand why not.
Having just previewed this post, from a rant point of view it is rather tame. It's just that I type slowly, and I have calmed down in the time it's taken. The bacon bap I have just eaten has also cheered me up a bit.

Re: BT Engineer visits

Ianwild — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:29:18 GMT

A good rant there - nice one

Re: BT Engineer visits

timlake — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:29:46 GMT

I feel for you. I hate that underlying all ADSL services we have to rely on BT, who just don't seem to care.
Maybe in a few years when the nationwide fibre project starts, things will get better

Re: BT Engineer visits

maranello — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:46:27 GMT

Quote from: timlake
Maybe in a few years when the nationwide fibre project starts, things will get better

Better for whom? As I understand it, 21CN will only improve things for those who already have decent quality lines. I can't see how fibre introduction will be any different, priority will be given to the most cost effective implementation in city centres. Unless the price of copper rises above the price of gold, in which case BT could pay for the cost of installing fibre by selling for scrap the copper wires it replaces.

Quote from: Ian
A good rant there - nice one

Shocked? You do surprise me. From reading other posts on this forum I would have thought that Plusnet might see this as commonplace. And tried to do something about it!

Re: BT Engineer visits

mal0z — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:04:21 GMT

Quote from: maranello

Unless the price of copper rises above the price of gold, in which case BT could pay for the cost of installing fibre by selling for scrap the copper wires it replaces.

Well if and when fibre replaces copper - even for POTS - then there will a hugh amount of redundant copper cables

Quote from: maranello

Shocked? You do surprise me. From reading other posts on this forum I would have thought that Plusnet might see this as commonplace. And tried to do something about it!

How can a small company like PN force big brother BT set their house in order ?
- PN are just any other ISP who rely in BT Wholesale

Re: BT Engineer visits

maranello — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:36:19 GMT

Rant, rant, rant
BTw are a monopoly supplier and should be monitored against minimum service standards as set by the Regulator.
Plusnet and other ISPs that rely on BTw networks need to ensure that the product they supply performs up to their customers' expectations, and should use their collective influence to ensure that the standards set for BTw are sufficient to meet their needs, and be prepared to take whatever action they can to ensure such standards are met.
Rant ends.
But I accept that in the real world this won't happen

Re: BT Engineer visits

mal0z — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:06:33 GMT

Quote from: maranello
Rant, rant, rant
Plusnet and other ISPs that rely on BTw networks need to ensure that the product they supply performs up to their customers' expectations, and should use their collective influence to ensure that the standards set for BTw are sufficient to meet their needs, and be prepared to take whatever action they can to ensure such standards are met.
Rant ends.

Apply for a job as PN's commercial manager - with a bonus related pay based on achieving the criteria you have just set

Re: BT Engineer visits

techguy — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:08:41 GMT

Quote from: timlake
I feel for you. I hate that underlying all ADSL services we have to rely on BT, who just don't seem to care.
Maybe in a few years when the nationwide fibre project starts, things will get better

Here here, shame the individuals that started PN and set the company ethos didn't have the financial resources to take over BT as opposed to the other way round as we might be getting somewhere if they were calling the shots.
BT Wholesale and Openreach are complacent as they still hold all the cards and have no competition (LLU ops still have to pay them to house equipment in BT exchanges and connect customers to their equipment) and so they attract some engineers that will do the minimum to help.
I think the time has come for such critical infrastructure to be nationalised under a government owned firm, that way, both ISPs and their customers would get a better deal.
Time the old infrastructure hoarding dinosaur became extinct.

Re: BT Engineer visits

mal0z — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:37:40 GMT

Quote from: techguy
I think the time has come for such critical infrastructure to be nationalised under a government owned firm, that way, both ISPs and their customers would get a better deal.
Time the old infrastructure hoarding dinosaur became extinct.

Like NationalRail -
but yes - every community has to have a local telephone exchange ?. Why on earth should it be in the hands of one huge company ?
Maybe a non-plc company should be established that provides services to all telecom companies.

Re: BT Engineer visits

Heloman — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:13:55 GMT

Like the nationalised Network Rail provides services for the rail franchises? All that's done is add a burden for the taxpayer without any significant improvement to the service.
"marinello"' commented:
"Plusnet and other ISPs that rely on BTw networks need to ensure that the product they supply performs up to their customers' expectations, and should use their collective influence to ensure that the standards set for BTw are sufficient to meet their needs,"
But that won't work. They don't have any influence, collective or otherwise, to wield. There is nowhere else for them to take their business. Surely the only thing that will make BT wake up is major competition from other sources, (cable, mobile, satellite) at competitive prices?

Re: BT Engineer visits

prichardson — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 21:55:55 GMT

To say the least, you have had the rotten end of the stick.
If you don't mind, I would like to book another appointment for you. To do so, I need to confirm your availability. Given you have already had 4 visits, I am sure you know the drill for this.
I will attempt to call you in the morning if possible. Can you confirm you should be available before lunch to talk?

Re: BT Engineer visits

maranello — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 07:30:40 GMT

Thanks Phil. I'm currently at work, so if you could ring me on the number on the Open Question (26287557) rather than my home phone number. I should be available most of this morning.
Regards
maranello

Re: BT Engineer visits

sassy62 — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:19:25 GMT

Quote
How can a small company like PN force big brother BT set their house in order ?

Hmmm..especially when they are owned by them...which puts them in a difficult position unfortunatly.

Re: BT Engineer visits

pierre_pierre — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:08:26 GMT

given that you are new to PN, TPP Plus Net are owned by BT Retail, They Get their line service from BT Wholesale, who get the transport (Tele line) from Open Reach.
All the fault of Maggy and diversification. they all act as separate companies

Re: BT Engineer visits

techguy — Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:19:22 GMT

Openreach (or openretch as have heard it referred to) is the problem, remember BT only adopted this philosophy when the regulator threatened to take a chainsaw to it.
With the greatest of respect to the good folks of PN, Bt Retail are exactly that, a retail op, its the monkeys that run Openretch that are the problem.

Re: BT Engineer visits

johpal — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 09:51:32 GMT

May I can contribute a rave to this rant?
Yesterday I had a visit from a BT engineer after reporting a line fault to PN and undertaking the usual tests. He had the courtesy to call me ahead of time to state when he would arrive and upon arrival had a notebook with a page of facts and figures of checks he had already performed at various points along the 3.6 kilometer route of my line from the exchange.
Gratifyingly, he discovered a fault on my line within minutes of connecting his laptop to my master socket; the error rates on my line were huge.. My house was built in 1932 and was occupied by a senior manager of the local steelworks; a telephone would have been installed in the very early days. The engineer discovered a vintage junction box, made of bakelite, containing huge brass connectors and copper fuses, weighing at least half a pound. This he replaced with a dinky, modern box. The error rates fell immediately by at least 2 orders of magnitude and a 4 dB decrease in SNR. My line is still in the "recovery" phase, so I don't know for certain if all my ills have vanished.
The engineer was polite and informative and above all else, useful. Congratulations to PN for getting him here in the first place, as after 18 months as a BT Total Broadband customer, I never attained that level of service.

Re: BT Engineer visits

maranello — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:36:59 GMT

You may or may not have noticed that I've been a bit quiet on this forum for a little while. One reason is that I have been spending some time in warmer climes (and I've got the mosquito bites as a souvenir). Another reason is that the connection problem saga that I have been discussing in this thread and others appear to have been resolved. If you're really interested or simply bored the relevant threads are these.
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,64203.msg516403.html#msg516403
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,64586.msg518996.html#msg518996
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,65371.msg523890.html#msg523890
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,67347.msg539947.html#msg539947
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,68909.msg550131.html#msg550131
Anyway, to summarise, after trying out 5 different filters, 2 filtered faceplates and 3 routers, and 4 visits from Openreach, I was still left with connection problems. The symptoms were frequent dropped connections and difficulty reconnecting, and slow speeds due to my IP profile constantly being bumped down to 135kbps. The underlying problem became apparent as a result of monitoring of my router stats, that the noise margin was fluctuating greatly and also the different routers often reported significant variation in the downstream line attenuation. After the 4th engineer visit failed to even look for REIN as a potential cause of these symptoms, I was prompted to start this thread in the newly created 'Rant' sub-topic. Unexpectedly, Matt Taylor at Plusnet (orbrey) picked up on this and personally intervened and contacted BTw to ask for equipment checks on my line and at my exchange. Problem cured. Please don't ask me for details, I could barely follow the simple explanation from Matt, but hopefully if he has a mind to he can provide details for you techies out there.
So, what I began as a rant I would like to convert to a testimonial to Plusnet staff who never lost patience with me and persevered (as did I) in resolving the problems. I can't imagine that any other ISP would have achieved this, so thanks to Matt, James (Bailey) and Phil (Richardson) in particular, and everyone on the CSC who responded to my fault tickets. Also thanks to the many members of this forum who contributed advice and encouragement.
The outcome of all this effort has been that I now have a stable connection that runs at 2Mbps instead of an intermittent one that ran on average at less than 0.5Mbps. And this is on a 4km line with a 63dB downstream attenuation. I'm so impressed that it's very likely I'll be using the connection more and have to either buy more usage or upgrade my package.
For anyone having similar problems to mine all I can say is keep persevering and stick with Plusnet
Edited on 3/12/08 - Having recently looked at one of my fault tickets, it was in fact Phil (not Matt) who kicked up a storm with BTw to finally get the fault sorted (some piece of hardware needed to be changed in the exchange). Matt was particularly proactive in keeping me informed by phone of the progress being made prior to Phil's involvement, and explaining some of the technical details.