topic Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet. in Plusnet Feedback

Situation resolved for long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:18:40 GMT

Today has been a nightmare
Booked engineer visit to install fibre 80/20 some weeks ago - then rang to confirm a week later to make sure everything was ok.
No problems received answer on site to confirm. So today took unpaid leave to be at home from 1.00 pm till 6.00 - I was actually here from 12:30 pm. My elderly mother was also in and whilst house bound can always open the door and always does.
Rang Plusnet at 3 ish to make sure engineer was coming. No problem they said and confirmed that the appointment was booked for today. rang at 17:25. Initial call was taken and then passed to another dept who still said that the engineer would attend by 18:00 - rang at 6:00 to be told that the appointment wasn't for today but for a future date!!!!!! Then passed to another department who said that was wrong and that the date had been changed by Openreach. When asked why the comment was that the engineer couldn't get access to the property. I was on my computer looking out of the window for 5 hrs waiting for them. And my Internet usage will show that. LIARS.
They are saying that I will have to take another day off.
I've had about enough of this nonsense from utility companies - surely there is something we can do to stop this absolute waste of ou money. My son is a Sky engineer and they lose money if they don't do the jobs they have allocated.
I am waiting now for a response and some sensible outcome - said I wanted fitting between 4 and 6 they said impossible!!
I am definitely going to send them an invoice for time and costs - rather like BT who charge £130 if you aren't in when they call.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 21:14:08 GMT

Now I have looked properly through the forum I see I am not alone.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

HPsauce — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 21:25:51 GMT

Quote from: Grimbleweed
I see I am not alone.

Which of course is the nature of Forums; very few people come here to say how well it went.
That said, you don't (realistically) have a claim yet - so don't send that invoice, it won't get paid. Having taken time off (now pointlessly), which you would have done for the install anyway, it's now up to "your supplier" to rectify the situation by completing the work at minimal inconvenience to you. You also have a duty (as enshrined in many legal cases) to be reasonable and to assist in minimising costs and losses overall.
BUT if the rearranged appointment(s) result in unavoidable costs to you, you may well have a claim from the effects of THAT appointment, not the original - that would have happened anyway.
Plus of course any losses resulting from the delay.
So, don't "jump the gun", but be reasonable and do make sure that anything arranged in future is done to suit you and/or "your supplier" agrees to cover your consequential losses.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 21:35:41 GMT

Thanks for your advice - had same issue with Thames Water who just didn't turn up and a delivery company who had agreed an extra for a specific time and date bu didn't make that either - not today of course - just so frustrating and I will not be to get weekdays off as I am a teacher an Have to be at work every day unless sick - chose this day because it co-incided with another event.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

spraxyt — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 21:49:32 GMT

If Monday to Friday is unsuitable for a rearranged appointment ask for one on a Saturday.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

jelv — Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:06:42 GMT

Have a read of http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/delivery-rights

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 05:30:53 GMT

Going to today thanks - hopefully PN will come up with a mutually agreeable solution this morning Case No. 60874872.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:01:01 GMT

Not a good day so far - excuses have cahned and no further forward - how can it take 48hrs to even get a new appointment?

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 15:56:47 GMT

Thought you'd like an update. As at 4.40 tonight I am more confused and exasperated by the inadequate answers given by PN and their seemingly subservient relationship with Openreach. I received updates today which I had hoped would start to resolve the matter but instead weave a web of deceit and a ;lack of clarity about what seems to have happened.
I. Yesterday No engineer despite my ringing on several occasions. Last post to me in the evening confirms that OR engineer attended site but could not get access - this was bound to upset me because I knew I was there.t
2. Today told that an engineer was never allocated the job EVEN though it was booked as a job for 10/10 - my response was to ask how come the engineer reported no access when he was never given the job - answer SYSTEM ERROR.
3. Why cant someone just give me a new appointment - it seems that the only people who run this show are OR.
The next date on my email says being looked at on Monday at 7.00 am.
I have had verbal agreement that PN have failed in their contractual duty - but the assistant somehow forgot to put this in the confirmation email.
They also say that they cannot escalate this - only OR can - the letter is full of jargon that PN could not explain to me.
Who can I contact at PN to help me?

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Chris — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:00:25 GMT

I've asked Adam to pick this up and do what he can for you.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

adamwalker — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:12:33 GMT

Hi there,
Chris asked me to look at this earlier so sorry I've not been able to reply until now.
We're very sorry that the engineer visit wasn't fulfilled. It's clear that some conflicting information has arisen about the reason for this and I will strive to push this back to our suppliers again for clarification on that point as that is our issue to worry about and take on ourselves I'm just sorry that this has impacted you as a result.
Moving forward I can see that you've requested an appointment for this Saturday, I am going to pick this case up from here and will do all I can to try and arrange that, however I don't wish to set an expectation that we can definitely achieve that at this point.
I will definitely promise to take the bull by the horns with this one as much as we're able to and I will be in touch by phone tomorrow with a further update.
Please let me know if there's any other aspects of this you feel unclear or have any concerns about and I'll address those points for you.
Adam

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Thu, 11 Oct 2012 16:29:18 GMT

Now had emails from Adam and spoke to James - very helpful and informative - lets hope what they are pursuing will bear fruit. Thank you for your attention gentlemen. I would love to post another positive comment tomorrow!

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:41:04 GMT

I would like to report a postive day - BUT CANT - James rang me earlier saying he had escaled to H something and was hopeful of a response but would ring me later - nor had email from Adam saying nothings changed !!!!! I am absolutely gobsmacked - they are still offering my an appointment for two weeks time on a Friday which I can't make as I am a teacher - what do I do ????
These OR people are a joke and it seems that PN just have to sit there and make excuses.
James - Adam please answer this.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

jelv — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:55:42 GMT

When's half term? If they can't offer you a Saturday they'll have to book you an appointment then.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:19:59 GMT

Away at half term - school trip - so unless I back out of that !!! Anyway I understood that they have to offer me an appointment that I can make! BTW nobody is responding to PM's now. So it's a sad situation.
Will have to now escalate to whoever?? I thought James was THE MAN to get things sorted. I understand that it is very difficult for them but OR just lied when they said someone had come but no one was in!
Then changed their story the next day to SYSTEM ERROR and then today its was a RESOURCES ISSUE. Why won't someone tell the truth. If i didn't turn up at work then 30 9 year oldsand their families would be put out -
I would probably be disciplined for not giving notice - I cant see me saying there was a system error being accepted as a valid excuse.
I'm tired - its the weekend and I was hopeful of a resolution tomorrow.
Can anyone help me with a next step??

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

James — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:31:23 GMT

Hi there
Thanks for time on the phone this morning. Sorry it was a bit noisy - I was on a train to Leeds!
As I mentioned I didn't call you last night as HLE had set an update time of 1800 and I wanted to give them a bit of extra time to give me an update. I called them when I got in at 1930 and as there was no further update I asked Ross to give you a ring.
This morning I called them again and they duly called Openreach to find out if they could push for an appointment for today which sadly they couldn't. However they have booked next Saturday. I'll call you again on Monday to let you know when in the day this is going to be.
Again I'm sorry for how long this has taken and I hope that we have a good outcome next weekend.
Enjoy your weekend!

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

Grimbleweed — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:47:49 GMT

Thank you for ringing me this morning and thank you James for your efforts - as I indicated I was shocked to get the communication update from Adam that basically said nothing could be done.
Perhaps he should have spoken to you first?
I am sad that they would not attend today but realise that this was probably unrealistic - and am pleased that you have secured an appointment for next Saturday.
Looking forward to hearing from you on Monday.
Pete.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

w23 — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 08:53:30 GMT

Quote from: Grimbleweed
I thought James was THE MAN to get things sorted.

That is about right, unfortunately I get the impression that OR failures are higher than usual at present so James is probably rather heavily loaded.
It's a crazy situation really as Plusnet are contractually responsible to the customer but they must 'subcontract' faults work to BTOR, the trouble is that BTOR are a monopoly and however poorly they perform Plusnet has no option but to continue to use their services (no doubt entirely at BTOR's terms).
Maybe the solution would be for the government to break BTOR's monopoly and allow other competent contractors to work on what was, after all, a public funded infrastructure (but that's going off topic and a whole other debate).
I sincerely hope the next appointment is successful.

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

WWWombat — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:45 GMT

Quote from: Grimbleweed
but OR just lied when they said someone had come but no one was in!
Then changed their story the next day to SYSTEM ERROR and then today its was a RESOURCES ISSUE. Why won't someone tell the truth. If i didn't turn up at work then 30 9 year oldsand their families would be put out -
I would probably be disciplined for not giving notice - I cant see me saying there was a system error being accepted as a valid excuse.

I guess the thing with Openreach appointments is that they don't know, in advance, how long any individual appointment is going to take. When booking 2 weeks in advance, all they know is that there are N bookings for the day, and M engineers available.
I believe the computerised job-allocation system works dynamically, so that when an engineer clocks off one job, the system chooses the next job for him to do (from the list of the day's bookings), and lets him know where it is.
This kind of system is great at allowing flexibility of all engineers - anyone can fill in anywhere dynamically. The downside occurs when those M engineers can't actually handle the N jobs that day... and the system won't be able to recognise it until the last engineer has clocked-off at the end of the day.
Unfortunately, this prevents any one engineer from taking any kind of personal responsibility for ensuring his customers get their appointments. They can't even see who those customers ought to be! Overall, the people are dependent on the computer - which starts the day with the best of intentions, but cannot give anyone advanced warning that their appointment will not be met. A modern version of "the computer says 'No'."
I understand that sometimes appointments cannot be met. However, Openreach seems to be particularly bad at the moment (weather-related?), and the computer system makes it act in a very inhuman way. The very worst thing about it is that Openreach have no decent (or effective) way to escalate or prioritise jobs, so that the same thing doesn't happen twice to the same customer. You'd think that there would be a way to mark a job with a "screwed up once, don't do it again" priority!

Re: Another very upset long standing customer who before today loved Plusnet.

HPsauce — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:50:13 GMT

Quote from: WWWombat
this prevents any one engineer from taking any kind of personal responsibility for ensuring his customers get their appointments.

Which means that the responsibility transfers to the management, hopefully assisted by their computer system.
In complete contrast, British Gas (who don't exactly have a great name either) actually phoned me during the day (I'm the contact) regarding an appointment at my in-laws house that they were going to be late for, to check whether an afternoon arrival for a morning appointment was OK. It was the office-based supervisor/manager who did this not the engineer.
There's absolutely NO reason why "PlusNets suppliers" can't do this, even if they have to go via PN as an imtermediary. Or maybe they do and the chain is broken at PN?
PS It also seems to be normal practice for BG engineers to "phone ahead" to give an estimate when they will arrive.