topic Re: FTTC Install Problem in Plusnet Feedback

FTTC Install Problem

emteec — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:02:29 GMT

FTTC install appointment was booked for today 25/10 8am-1pm. Phone line transfer order (i.e. keeping my old number) to be ordered by Plusnet after Fibre install completed.
7.30am Phone Line order placed by Plusnet (even though Broadband order not yet completed). BT Openreach reject the order.
1pm Phoned Plusnet to advise that no BT Engineer has appeared. BT OR advise that appointment was cancelled because a Cease order had been received for today. BT OR are to report back tomorrow where this cease order came from - my existing provider (O2) state that it definitely did not come from them).

2.20 - 2:40pm Old O2 phone line (& number) ceased. New Plusnet (& number) activated.
Waiting to be advised (tomorrow?) when my new FFTC install date will be.
So a waste of a day & the inconvenience of being given a new telephone number.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

NorthEasterner — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:35:56 GMT

Contact Openreach direct.
hope it helps

Re: FTTC Install Problem

w23 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:37:08 GMT

Quote from: Geordiegal
Contact Openreach direct.

How? AFAIK they will not talk to end users (pity).

Re: FTTC Install Problem

NorthEasterner — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:44:00 GMT

just a suggestion, I knew someone who rang open reach and it went succesful!

Re: FTTC Install Problem

w23 — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:48:02 GMT

Not knocking the suggestion, just I believe it can be rather difficult.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

prichardson — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:22:41 GMT

Hi Emteec,
According to our records, we only placed your transfer order for the first time on October 25th, which was rejected as you note with the reason that a cease order was in progress and was due to completion "with a lesser CCD/CRD" (quoted from the order).
We always place orders for the minimum leadtime (with exception of when a specific date is requested), of which transfer orders have a minimum transfer time of 10 working days. As such, couple this with the error message, this meant the cease that caused our order to be rejected was due for complete, before the minimum 10 days of our order.
For reference, I actually dispute what O2 have told you.
Transfer orders have a statutory leadtime of 10 working days. This is covered by condition 24 of the Ofcom general conditions (see 24.19n).
If O2 received the transfer request on the date they have claimed, this is less than the mandatory 10 working days. This 10 day period is enforced at several points in the order process, and not by the originating provided, or O2 themselves. The specific point I make if for the cease to have occurred as a result of a transfer order in the way O2 described, they had to have received in on October 11th or 12th.
When we came to place the order on the 25th, the line was in a stopped status. Although O2 note a transfer took place, it is not impossible for the line to have transferred, then been stopped following this in quick succession.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

emteec — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:53:59 GMT

I'm trying to get the sequence of events straight in my head, but must admit to being a bit lost with all the jargon & technical processes.
So a couple of questions:
I specifically asked for the date 25/10/12 when I placed the order on the 25/09/12; so when would the order of been placed with BT OR?
O2 claimed something about them receiving notification of an "Unsolicited Cease Order" on the 25/10/12; are you able explain what that means?

Re: FTTC Install Problem

prichardson — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:19:51 GMT

An "Unsolicited cease" is some form of cease order that is not generated by the "current provider". This would indeed suggest that O2 themselves have not placed it.
The common cause of this is when another provider requests to perform a number port (transferring the number to a.n.other service), rather than transfer all services on that line elsewhere. These too also have a minimum leadtime of 5 working days, so too is unlikely to explain what happened here. There are some other causes, but they are pretty complex, in a nutshell they are generally errors.
When a customer has an active broadband service when they sign up to us and also want phone with us, we always perform the broadband transfer (which includes fibre services) first. We do not initiate the phone transfer until this completes.
The phone and broadband cannot be transferred together, as the two order types conflict.
As such, our first phone transfer attempt was on October 25th, the date the fibre order was originally due.
Unfortunately, we cannot request information on the cease that O2 received. Only O2 can request the applicable information on this, but I will admit there are limitations on what type of detail they can obtain (as we know the limitations of what we can obtain, if we were the recipients of such a unsolicited cease).
What is most odd is the O2 version of events, giving you two conflicting dates. They first stated they received the transfer on the 22nd, then state an unsolicited cease on the 25th. This may just be the way they have referenced dates, specifying the date it was due to complete rather than the date of receipt.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

emteec — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 14:42:48 GMT

Not getting anywhere with Customer Services in regard to getting a new Fibre Engineer appointment.
I was told yesterday that within 24 hours BT would confirm their verbal statement to Plusnet as to whether the Cease on the line was made in error by themselves.
Today, Customer Services are refusing to chase BT or investigate further. It all seemed too much effort for her!
Yesterday I was told that BT had agreed that if the error was theirs then BT would expedite the earliest appointment date. But if Plusnet will not follow this up, then that will not happen.
So what is the best way to proceed?

Re: FTTC Install Problem

orbrey — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:16:16 GMT

Hi emteec,
Unfortunately as we've never owned the line we're unable to get any information regarding the orders placed, that's why the CSC are unable to chase this for you (though I apologise if it's come across as us refusing to, and would like to look into that). O2 would possibly be able to get information regarding the cease as they were the owners of the line when it ceased, sorry that we can't.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

emteec — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:17:32 GMT

But the gentlemen on your Customer Services DID speak to BT. I don't know which dept in BT he contacted or what he asked.
However, he said he had explained to BT that I was not expecting a cease (& O2 have confirmed that it was an Unsolicited Cease).
He was advised by BT that they would investigate the cease order within 24 hours & if it was an error on BT's part, then the earliest next engineer appointment would be offered to me (presumably at no additional cost to Plusnet).
Plusnet don't need to discuss anything to do wth the cease order with BT. You just need to chase for the promised BT confirmation that they will pay for an expedited Fibre appointment.
Regardless of all the above. My line was reactivated yesterday afternoon (with a new number) & the support ticket said a new Engineer appt. date would be requested today (even if it turns out to be a normal priority appt.). However, as far as I am aware Plusnet have yet to do this.
This really is bad.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

chrispurvey — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:35:52 GMT

Hi emteec,
I've got our provisioning team looking into this, one of the senior advisor's will be giving you a call to discuss this although it looks like it will be tomorrow when this happens while we investigate.
Chris

Re: FTTC Install Problem

emteec — Sat, 27 Oct 2012 10:35:03 GMT

Please note I now have NO Broadband at home. So I will not be able to view updates posted here very often.
I would be grateful if any important updates are phoned or texted to my mobile.
Thanks.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

emteec — Sat, 27 Oct 2012 11:37:30 GMT

Just been offered provisional installation date of 09-Nov-2012 (#61525952).
If that is the best effort Plusnet can make then I guess I'm stuck with it.
It's disappointing that apparently Plusnet are unwilling to chase BT OR's verbal admission on 25/10/12 that the problem was caused by a BT OR mistake & that they were willing to offer the earliest possible appointment (possibly even a Saturday the gentleman in Plusnet customer services had stated).

Re: FTTC Install Problem

emteec — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:25:32 GMT

Plusnet some questions:
Why was I not advised first thing on the morning of Thursday 25/10 that BT had cancelled by appointment?
How long before you review the call recordings of the 25/10 to hear what your telephone call centre advised me?
Why does my account state that my Broadband with Plusnet is now ready to use?
Any chance of you showing some kind of urgency in investigating your poor service?

Re: FTTC Install Problem

NorthEasterner — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 22:23:28 GMT

Hi, Your Broadband is Active but you can't connect to it. This means when the engineer comes the DSL light on the modem will turn green immediatley. Also Plusnet have no control over BTOR so they are unable to provide the very latest info on your engineer's visit.
dick:quote

Re: FTTC Install Problem

adamwalker — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 11:03:51 GMT

emteec,
I'm really sorry to hear about the issues you've encountered so far, I've read through the history of this issue and will do my best to answer those questions for you:

Quote
Why was I not advised first thing on the morning of Thursday 25/10 that BT had cancelled by appointment?

I can see from the notes on ticket 61343861 you did make us aware that o2 would be "barring" your line on the 25th. However I don't believe we would have had any awareness of this causing an issue with the order until the date of the installation.

Quote
How long before you review the call recordings of the 25/10 to hear what your telephone call centre advised me?

It's not possible to say, we are looking into an issue that's so far preventing us from listening to those recordings but rest assured we will do that as soon as we're able to and we will keep you posted about that.

Quote
Why does my account state that my Broadband with Plusnet is now ready to use?

The account became active due to an automated process because we were fully expecting it to become active on the 25th. Sorry if you feel that's misleading or inappropriate.

Quote
Any chance of you showing some kind of urgency in investigating your poor service?

I'm sorry if you feel that urgency hasn't been applied so far, it's certainly not the impression we'd like you to have. I can see from ticket 61483474 that we're awaiting the reply from the back of an escalation request referenced to on ticket 61525952.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

emteec — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 18:31:04 GMT

Plusnet are unable to locate the recordings of my telephone conversations with them.
How convenient!

Re: FTTC Install Problem

Anotherone — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 20:50:22 GMT

And full; of platitudes it would seem.

Re: FTTC Install Problem

jelv — Thu, 01 Nov 2012 21:35:22 GMT

Quote from: emteec
Plusnet are unable to locate the recordings of my telephone conversations with them.
How convenient!

Actually there's been some work on their phone system which was notified by service status postings between then and now, including relocating servers so I wouldn't read anything sinister in to them having trouble locating the recording.