topic Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!! in Plusnet Feedback

Customer support? Yuk!!!!

g3ucq — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:26:34 GMT

I have a ticket running - 28517940
The first answer took 13hrs 36mins.
The second answer took 10hrs 16mins.
The third answer took 12hrs 03 mins.
The fourth answer is now over 8hrs and counting.
I was with Metronet for about 7 years and just migrated to Plusnet. I am beginning to regret this move.
Would anyone from Plusnet technical support care to comment please?
Thanks
John

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Emma — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:48:36 GMT

It does depend on the type of question being asked as to how quick you get the answer you want, and also those ticket turn arounds are okay.
You are aware that plusnet and metronet staff are the same people?
Maybe if you share the problem we can help?

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

g3ucq — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:09:04 GMT

Thank you for your quick response Emma.
Those times,IMO are not 'OK'
Yes, I am aware they are the same people.
When I went to MaxADSL some months ago with Metronet I did not realise that my router should be left on 24/7 so I switched it off at night and also when I did not need it for some hours. I later found out I should keep the router running 24/7 which I have done ever since.
Recently, my profile down speed has been 7800kbps (good) but my snr is 6 or lower (not good) as I get lost and/or flakey connections. Now, even though I turn my router off all night, the speed stays at 7800kbps. Previously, the best actual down speed I have had was 5600kbps but it averages at about 5000kbps. My question to CS was why is the speed 'stuck' on 7800 even though I turn off the router when a lower speed of about 6000kbps would be more stable.
The response from CS has been to run the fault checker but I don't have a fault as such. I just want to know why the down speed profile is always 7800kbps. No one seems capable of supplying the answer. Sorry for the rant.
Thanks again
John
PS My snr is 4.8 at this moment and speed is 7680kbps

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Oldjim — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:37:56 GMT

Can you clarify.
What does your router report - speed attenuation and noise margin
What does this say for Current line speed https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
Can you run the BT speedtest http://speedtester.bt.com/ and advise the results
Note that there isn't an IP profile down speed of 7800 kbps - that isn't one of the options

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Anotherone — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:25:12 GMT

Reboot your modem/router at around 2100 hrs.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

g3ucq — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:03:01 GMT

Hello and thank you for your replies.
I ran the BT speedtest and got "No of threads are 4!" after the test and nothing after that.
I ran a speedtest on Speedtest.net and got 5940 kbps down and 5600 kbps on Thinkbroadband so nothing wrong there.
I had turned off my router at about 8pm last night and on this morning at 9am but the downspeed in the router is still reporting 7800 kbps with a snr of 6.3
With the speeds I have you may wonder what the fuss is about.
I had an answer from CS this morning and it was confirmed I am on MaxADSL but there was no answer to my query of why the speed does not change when I turn the router off. Weeks ago if I did that the speed would drop to 500kbps and then gradually build up again. I am intrigued as to why this is.
Regards
John

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

itsme — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 09:27:38 GMT

Believe it best for you to go here and read how ADSLMax work.
Basically the SNR is a margin and the system will try to give you the highest speed with the lowest margin maintaining a stable connection. If the connection is unstable then the SNR margin is increased which will then decrease the sync speed.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Alden — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:32:26 GMT

As I understand it the way the adaptive speed works is that the speed is increased until the SRN drops to 6dB So as you are at 6dB thats as fast as the line will go. So I suspect you are about to enter the world of its not our fault. The owner of the line to your house does not have to provide a data line they only have to provide a speech line, thats what you agreed when the line was installed. Data is then piggy backed on this line to the speed it supports. If say a tree has damaged the line, such that there is now moisture entering the line, or some other such fault, then until it gets so bad that the speech is being interfered with it will be very hard to get anybody to fix it.
The main reason for this being that it is very hard to diagnose, the analogue people do not test for such faults. All of this is a direct result of unbundling, you get what you pay for maybe You can ask your ISP to run tests, but they will basically say all is wellish, you need to keep good records of your speed and SRN, so you can say no this has deteriorated, please can you investigate why. The result of this will be that the digital people can only say yes it is slow but working and the analogue lot just say its ok, because they can hear things and you end up getting charged 120quid for a false call out, until the line totally fails. Now the analouge people work magic and once a new line has been installed it will suddenly be back to how it was originally.
It actually the system which is wrong. This actually needs action by Ofcom to sort this mess out, its actually part of a bigger problem called the rural digital divide, so lobby your MP, to get their rules improved.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Anotherone — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:27:57 GMT

@Alden
wrt the first sentence of your post, it's actually the other way around. The DLM says right the Taget Noise Margin is 6dB (or 9, or 12, or 15 depending on line history) and there is currently x amount of noise on the line, so what's the best speed we can give with that situation. I hope that makes it a bit clearer.
@John F
Noise levels tend to be lowest in the daytime, generally more than an hour after sunrise to more than an hour before sunset (although local cirmstances may cause this to be different). So if you sync in these times you will tend to get the highest sync speeds. If however, the noise increases sufficiently after dark, in your case the margin is dropping to ~4.5dB and you start getting lots of errors and the odd drop in sync, as you've already worked out you'd be better with a slightly lower sync speed.
You therefore need to sync when noise is higher which is why I've already suggested 2100 hours.
If you get too many drops in sync or errors, the DLM will up the Target SNRM and you may end up with a lower sync than your line could get with a stable connection.
Try what I've said, you will still most likely be syncing above 6816 and hence have at least a 6M profile, chances are it may be just above 7392 and you'll keep your 6.5M profile but under more stable conditions.
To get the BT speedtester to run you need to have JRE installed (the latest version for your particular OS).
Edit: Did you mean your router is reporting sync of 7808 or does it really say 7800 in which case you should check your situation with another modem router, 7800 isn't a valid figure.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

petejackson — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:57:56 GMT

Quote from: John
Would anyone from Plusnet technical support care to comment please?

I've had a look at your ticket and agree with you that this does appear to be a long time for you to have received a reply. I'm looking into the causes of this delay with the CSC team managers. Clearly we look to provide a timely response to all our enquiries. 12 hours for a first response isn't ideal and it's not the norm. Sometimes, when a ticket has been escalated for second level investigation you might expect a longer turnaround time but your first response is generally a lot quicker than this. Anyone else seeing long response times on tickets?
On the subject of your enquiry, it's made me wonder; does our information on Max (http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/products/faqs_and_guides/dslmax_guide.shtml) give the impression that speeds always go up and down and would fluctuate if your router is powered down? I'd not come across that before. I trust from reading the ticket your question has been answered? And yes, you can turn your router off when not in use without affecting your line speeds.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Anotherone — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:15:38 GMT

Yes you can turn your router off when not in use without affecting your line speed (although I dispute the terminology, but that's another matter). It's when you turn it ON that can be important - unless you live next door to the exchange!
I think the guide perhaps should comment about that.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

g3ucq — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:00:33 GMT

Hello Peter and anotherone. Thank you for your replies and I am glad Peter that you agree with me that the response times were too long.
I somehow got the impression that you were more efficient than that.
Some months ago I raised a ticket when I was with Metronet and to cut a long story short was told that I should leave my router on 24/7 as turning it off would cause the sync rate to change and my speeds to fluctuate down. With the router left on the speeds would be more stable. It was that mis-inforamtion that made me pse the question "why does my speed now stay the same when I turn off my router" It took four days to get an answer.
I have to say that this just after I requested a change to Plusnet from Metronet. I understood I needed a MAC key for the transfer so raised a question to obtain one. It took five days before someone told me I did not need one going from Metronet to Plusnet. (I could not find that info on your instructions)
I was then told the change would take a day or so but Peter Coventry did it overnight for me.
All's well now and thank you again for the updated info.
Regards all
John

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Mand — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:15:31 GMT

Glad to hear everything is now sorted for you

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Anotherone — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:39:04 GMT

Quote from: John
..........Some months ago I raised a ticket when I was with Metronet and to cut a long story short was told that I should leave my router on 24/7 as turning it off would cause the sync rate to change and my speeds to fluctuate down. With the router left on the speeds would be more stable. It was that mis-inforamtion ....................

That sounds like a standard canned response from Metronet/PN .. which is true for the majority of customers, it isn't misinformation. If you live close enough to the exchange it won't apply. Anyway I'm glad your situation is sorted..

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

amcbride — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:12:05 GMT

Sorry for jumping into your question, but can we clarify that turning a router off is ok, it will not affect sync rates. I had a problem and had to switch my router on and off several times in a short space of time and the speed slowed down due to BTs dynamic management system .

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

jelv — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:07:27 GMT

Turning the router off can affect your speeds - depending upon when it is done and how often.
If it is turned on and off several times in a short space of time it is very probable that BT will interpret this as line instability and lower your speed in an attempt to get it more stable.
Noise margins tend to decrease during the evening so if you connect then it is likely that you will get a little lower speed.
If you connect once during the daytime then leave it connected until turning it off for the night it is most unlikely to have an adverse affect.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

itsme — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:00:11 GMT

Sorry but I'm going to be bit pedantic here.

Quote
If it is turned on and off several times in a short space of time it is very probable that BT will interpret this as line instability and lower your speed in an attempt to get it more stable.

It's the SNRm margin that is increased which will decrease the sync speed.

Quote
Noise margins tend to decrease during the evening so if you connect then it is likely that you will get a little lower speed.

It's the SNR that tend to decrease in the evening. If the sync has been maintained then the reported SNRm margin will decrease. if the sync has been lost then the system will sync with the same SNRm margin but this will result in a lower speed because of the lower SNR.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

Anotherone — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:25:40 GMT

I think itsme's made a typo there, the SNR decreases.
In plain english Noise gets worse in the evenings generally, otherwise itsme & Jelv have said exactly what I've said time and time again.
You can switch your modem/router off when you like, it's when you switch it on that's important!
Edit: UNLESS you are close enough to the exchange, then it won't matter.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

itsme — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:29:09 GMT

I can't see any typo but I will edit so it's clearer when I' referring to SNR or SNR margin.
Sorry you right not a typo more of a brain freeze.

Re: Customer support? Yuk!!!!

jelv — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:35:26 GMT

Quote from: itsme
Sorry but I'm going to be bit pedantic here.
<snip>

I realise all that (subject to Anotherone's correction) - I wanted to keep it simple. The outcome is more relevant to most people rather than a detailed technical explanation!
There seems to be a myth about never turning the router off. The point I was making is that, providing you a sensible, turning the router off shouldn't be a problem.
I could of added that if like myself you always sync at 8192 and the noise margin never drops gets anywhere near 6db all evening, it doesn't matter if you fire your router up during the evening - again as long as you don't do it too often.