topic Re: Stop censoring me in Plusnet Feedback

Stop censoring me

kged — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:53:54 GMT

I have found that I am unable to use the internet freely because Plusnet is sending me through a proxy, interfering with my ability to fully utilise some sites. On said sites my IP address shows as being completely different to my actual IP address, indicating that I have been routed through a proxy. I don't want this, I haven't asked for this, and it is to stop ASAP. I won't stay with or fund an ISP which thinks it has any business making decisions for me. I look forward to hearing that this invasive and illiberal practice is being abandoned in the near future.

Re: Stop censoring me

Oldjim — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:06:14 GMT

Plusnet do not use proxies except in one circumstance as noted in Reply 3 below - the chances are that you have either got a virus or trojan which is doing it
Have you tried a tracert to one of the affected sites

Re: Stop censoring me

VileReynard — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:33:41 GMT

Try http://www.whatismyip.com/

Re: Stop censoring me

spraxyt — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:39:37 GMT

A proxy can be involved in one special circumstance - when a site is hosted on a server which is on the IWF (Internet Watch Foundation) list. See Internet Watch Foundation FAQ for information on the potentially illegal content list used by Plusnet and how the filter is implemented.

Re: Stop censoring me

kged — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:20:24 GMT

So, as I initially stated, the ISP I pay for is censoring my internet usage because the IWF have decided that I shouldn't be allowed to use the net as I see fit. I am NOT doing anything illegal nor viewing anything illegal, but the Mary Whitehouse Foundation has judged this insufficient to satisfy their need to make my choices for me. If you as a company want to buy into their censorious and repressive agenda that's your choice, but I won't have it. Stop this or lose my custom.

Re: Stop censoring me

Strat — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:24:59 GMT

spraxyt said "a proxy can be involved" he didn't say it necessarily was in this case so you may have to look elsewhere for the cause.
Even ISPs have social and moral responsibilities.

Re: Stop censoring me

dvorak — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:28:03 GMT

it may also be helpful if you were to provide what you thought you were been blocked from?

Re: Stop censoring me

jelv — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:57:44 GMT

Quote from: kged
Stop this or lose my custom.

Bye

Re: Stop censoring me

Kelly — Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:40:48 GMT

What are you trying to look at? If it's being incorrectly routed through our IWF filter, we can take a look and fix that.

Re: Stop censoring me

mxs — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:38:44 GMT

More info on wikipedia.

Quote
UK Home Office Minister Vernon Coaker instructed all UK ISPs to implement a version of it by the end of 2007 on a voluntary basis, or face legal compulsion

I don't believe there is currently any legal compulsion for ISPs to use the IWF proxy but I believe the majority of them have done so voluntarily - are there any that continue not to use it?
BT were also ordered by the courts to block a certain usenet indexing site (possibly others in the pipeline also) using the system but at the moment I believe that list only applies to BT as an ISP rather than anyone who uses their system.
I think you will be hard-pressed to find an UK ISP that has not implemented the IWF proxy (some may not mention it explicitly but it does not mean it is not in use) - the alternative would probably be legislation that would be even worse for them. Putting aside the censorship argument it should not affect the majority of people - there are occasionally problems with sites that check users IP addresses in a certain way and think multiple people are trying to use the system from the same location (in the past wikipedia editing and some file locker sites spring to mind) but I think most problems can be resolved if you report them.

Re: Stop censoring me

kged — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:44:24 GMT

Quote from: Kelly
...routed through our IWF filter...

The fact that you HAVE an IWF filter is all I needed to know. As soon as I can find a ISP that doesn't need the approval of those cardigan-wearers before letting me browse as I wish, I'll be off. Thanks for your replies folks (most of them anyway).

Re: Stop censoring me

jelv — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:54:57 GMT

Andrews & Arnold
[quote=http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-realinternet.html]Data logging
We do not log which websites you visit (though the website administrator may). We don't run any sort of transparent proxies or other systems to covertly log what you do on the internet, and do not sell data to anyone. We specifically monitor traffic levels and make this available to you. If we are helping you debug a problem we can monitor traffic for you in real time, but we don't record that. We also take occasional random traffic snapshots periodically which we hold for 24 hours - this is only to help identify causes of network load problems after the event. All of our servers which you use (e.g. email, web servers, etc.) have logs which are kept for a few months, but you do not have to use our servers if you do not want to. We have not yet been required to retain communications data for 12 months under the new legislation. We do not run anything like Phorm and never will.
Censoring
It is not our role to try and censor what you do with the internet. We do not try and log or limit what you are accessing. It is your responsibility to stick to the laws that apply to you. We have no intention of putting in place any censorship systems or using censored transit feeds.
Censorship systems are usually introduced under the guise of some emotive topic such as stopping child abuse which nobody could argue with. Such systems are very very unlikely to have any actual impact at all on the actual problem they claim to solve. Such systems often break or hinder the normal working of the internet, as seen by wikipedia recently. They are usually easy to circumvent. If they work at all then they just drive the offensive use underground and using encryption so making it harder to find and deal with. They are also the thin end of the wedge as once a system is in place then adding more is easy. Bear in mind most ISPs using such systems then have no control over what is censored or why. If we accept censorship for child abuse, then we have to accept it for terrorism, and then maybe political extremist views, and then maybe not so extreme views, and maybe wrong thinking or pictures of policeman (oh wait, that was just made illegal too!)... "then they came for me and there was no-one left to speak out".
Black boxes
We have no so called black boxes to covertly monitor traffic and/or pass traffic monitoring to the authorities or anyone else. Obviously the law is such that we may have to add such black boxes, but we would resist as far as possible. We may even find we are not allowed to change this web page if ever that happens. However, I, as director, am happy to answer direct questions on this matter on irc (user RevK) or on usenet and you can get paranoid if I refuse to.

Re: Stop censoring me

adamwalker — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 09:50:13 GMT

IWF is intended to protect rather than inhibit the customer's experience of using our service. As mentioned if something is inappropriately filtered by IWF we can fix it.

Re: Stop censoring me

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:05:47 GMT

@Adam - I think you are missing the point that the OP was trying to make.

Quote from: kged
I have found that I am unable to use the internet freely because Plusnet is sending me through a proxy, interfering with my ability to fully utilise some sites. On said sites my IP address shows as being completely different to my actual IP address, indicating that I have been routed through a proxy. I don't want this, I haven't asked for this, and it is to stop ASAP.

'kged' did NOT say they were being incorrectly filtered, but because the sites that were being accessed were going via the proxy, the spoofing of the sending IP address was causing the wanted service to not be fully accessible.

According to http://www.plus.net/support/security/abuse/iwffaq.shtml

Quote
4. How does the filtering work?
When you click on a link or enter an address into your web browser, this sends a request to our network routers.
Our routers check the IP Address of the server that the website you want to visit is hosted on. If the IP address matches that of a server that's used to host one of the websites on the IWF list then your request is diverted to a proxy server.
The proxy server will check if the site address you're trying to visit is on the IWF list. If it is, you'll be re-directed to this page to let you know what's happened. If not then the webpage you've requested will load as normal.

If 'kged' was being filtered then they would be complaining about being redirected to the Plusnet IWF landing page.

Quote

What 'kged' is asking for, is to NOT be routed via the Plusnet/IWF proxy as that is interfering with the wanted website.
This unwanted routing via the proxy is happening because a different website containing possibly inappropriate material happens to be located on the same webhost, and is not related to the web pages that 'kged' is trying to access.

Re: Stop censoring me

Kelly — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:11:15 GMT

He shouldn't be being proxied. We need to know what page he's seeing the problem on to work out if something is wrong.

Re: Stop censoring me

Kelly — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:14:59 GMT

Quote from: purleigh
What 'kged' is asking for, is to NOT be routed via the Plusnet/IWF proxy as that is interfering with the wanted website.
This unwanted routing via the proxy is happening because a different website containing possibly inappropriate material happens to be located on the same webhost, and is not related to the web pages that 'kged' is trying to access.

Yeah, this could unfortunately be it, that the same host has something which is blocked and we are picking up the address and checking it, but not actually blocking the request. 😕
Need the url to check though

Re: Stop censoring me

Anonymous — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 11:17:13 GMT

That is what the following implies -
[quote=Plusnet IWF FAQ]If the IP address matches that of a server that's used to host one of the websites on the IWF list then your request is diverted to a proxy server.
The proxy server will check if the site address you're trying to visit is on the IWF list. If it is, you'll be re-directed to this page to let you know what's happened. If not then the webpage you've requested will load as normal.

Re: Stop censoring me

scotchwhisky — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:24:04 GMT

AAISP are one of the very few ISPs that haven't voluntarily committed to block access to child sexual abuse web pages thereby protecting the consumers of their services from being inadvertently exposed to such content.
I would warn you however that AAISP are a very expensive ISP, particularly if you are on a Market 1 exchange and use the internet during the day. I know I am currently with them and am about to migrate to Plusnet.
I suggest that you migrate to them if you are so concerned about any form of censorship.