topic Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage? in Plusnet Feedback

When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

JohnUK — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 13:57:09 GMT

The Internet is always changing in many ways that requires more bandwidth. Back in the good old days when Broadband first came to the UK it was UNLIMITED access on most ISPs. Then all of a sudden they started to put usages on their packages (to make more money).
I understand that Plusnet did use to have an unlimited package and then decided to take it off as they felt that people were using too much bandwidth and was slowing down their network. But what gets me is that they let you have more bandwidth if you pay extra. So if you can afford it you can have unlimited full access with Plusnet but it will cost you a lot more.
But, if most people stay under 60GB or 10GB anyway then there is no difference on how unlimited access would impacted their network. So to me it's just a money making...
Now if you go to any other country such as the US, they have unlimited access! They think we are crazy for not having unlimited access here.I totally agree! I use up to my limited every month but I have to be very careful. I find it very sad that I am limited as I am unable to do things that I use to do when it was unlimited. Such as playing a game on OnLive for 30 mins can eat 1GB.
So when will Plusnet offer an unlimited package? Yes I know its free from 12am to 8am but most people sleep! If other countries can offer free unlimited access then we must be doing something wrong! Or we are just mugs who enjoys paying more.
Don't get me wrong though as Plusnet is a great ISP and when you look at other ISPs they only give you like 5 or 10GB a month. Thats just daft as I us about 2 to 3GB daily!

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

jelv — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 17:56:27 GMT

The simple answer to your question is never.
If Plusnet started offering unlimited they would be flooded by users from other ISPs who want to download half the internet every month.

Quote from: JohnUK
Then all of a sudden they started to put usages on their packages (to make more money).

Not true. They were having to commission more and more central pipes to meet the increasing demand. They were faced with a stark choice:

Put up prices across the board to pay for the increased central capacity.

Start making a loss by continuing to increase capacity without putting up prices

Allow user demands to increase unchecked without commissioning new capacity resulting in slow downs for all users

Stop selling unlimited and meet the requirements of the vast majority of their users (good speeds and sensible usage allowances)
It's worth noting that the traffic shaping Plusnet imposed when Plusnet Unlimited was introduced was pretty severe, if it was reintroduced it would have to be more severe and they'd then be faced with a barrage of complaints when users found that the traffic restrictions meant they couldn't download at anything like reasonable speeds and questioning what the point of unlimited was if the speed restrictions severely limited the amount that could be downloaded.
You have a simple choice: if the packages offered by Plusnet don't meet your requirements, find one that does.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

ejs — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:26:27 GMT

There are still plenty of speed restrictions in the evenings on the Extra and Value packages (unless you pay for the Pro add-on), because setting a usage allowance doesn't help that much if everyone tries to use their allowance at the same time.
And of course you pay the same price regardless of if, depending on the length of your phone line, your line speed is 2Mbit or 20Mbit.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

x47c — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:27:07 GMT

.........Probably for the same reason that the UK does not offer unlimited speed limits on the roads
If they did while most would obey some sort of sensible self imposed speed limit for their own safety and for the peace and quiet of those whose villages they were passing through.....we all know that there would be the usual idiots/nut jobs who have no self restraint and no thoughts for others.
Hence we have speed limits - an inconvience for the majority to prevent abuse of by the minority.
Hence we have usage caps on broadband for similar reasons.
Sometime in the future once FTTx becomes common I can see ISP's starting to charge on a max speed cap basis.
you want 20 Meg max pay £x, you want to be able to get more, pay more etc.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

glloyd — Tue, 27 Dec 2011 11:54:08 GMT

You can have unlimited now you just have to pay for it in £5 chunks after you have used up your set allowance.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

WWWombat — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 18:09:18 GMT

Quote from: JohnUK
If other countries can offer free unlimited access then we must be doing something wrong! Or we are just mugs who enjoys paying more.

Actually, the Americans envy the value we get for our money. They might get unlimited accounts (though actually, they don't), but they certainly pay for them, and they don't get the speed.
One big difference is in the pricing models used around different countries. Here in the UK, we have (so far) gone for a model where the speed of the connection is *not* affected by the price, but the usage is - and then extra usage is available at extra cost. And we do have pretty low costs for our basic packages - £6.50 per month from Plusnet for their basic usage package (but still available at the upto 20Mbps speeds, usug ADSL2+ 24Mbps technology), after any initial discounts.
Other countries price differently - and can use a model where usage is unlimited, but the speed determines the package price (and you can't hike the speed for a one-off month).
Here is what I could find for the AT+T in the US: 3Mbps is $38pm, 6Mbps is $43, 12Mbps is $48, 18Mbps is $53 and 24Mbps is $63 (£25, £28, £31, £35 and £41 respectively). All those are the fully monthly prices, which are pretty hidden. The "introductory" pricing is lower, from $20 for the 3Mbps connection, up to $45 for the 24Mbps package. These packages are all limited to 250GB... but still. A 24Mbps ADSL2+ account for £41pm, no matter whether you use 1GB or all 250GB.
Everyone raves about the countries that provide huge speeds, such as Sweden, but again they pay for it. This is what Telia will charge for broadband (again, introductory prices knock down the amount initially):
- 2Mbps for 252 krona (£24)
- 8Mbps for 309 krona (£29)
- 30Mbps VDSL for 359 krona (£34) if you are within 1500 metres of the "telestation"(my Swedish isn't good enough to work out if this is a cabinet or exchange)
- 60Mbps VDSL for 429 krona (£41) if you are within 750 metres.
- 100Mbps fibre for 339 krona (£32)
- 100/100 fibre for 499 krona (£47)
AT+T and Telia are both the incumbant operators, so are bound to be the most expensive in the market (at least for standard residential support standards). It is probably best to compare them to BT...
... However, BT's equivalent prices are harder to equate directly, because they include some element of call package too (evenings, weekends or anytime, in some combination):
- 10GB for £14 or £16, at up to 20Mbps
- 40GB for £18 at either 20 or 40Mbps
- Unlimited at £25 at either 20 or 40Mbps
- Unlimited at £35 at 110Mbps fibre.
Plusnet's best package, without any calls included, gives you 120GB for £21 at 40Mbps. You can't even get 2 or 3 Mbps service in either Sweden or the US for that - and if you want to make real use of that "unlimited" usage allowance, you will *need* to be scheduling downloads for overnight, just to keep the link usable when people actually want to do things.
Are we really the mugs who enjoy paying more?

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

professor — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 21:04:05 GMT

Plusnet stopped offering unlimited broadband because they were taken over by BT. Obviously they could not be allowed to offer the same as BT proper at a lower price, or it would pay to close them down.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

jelv — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 21:24:06 GMT

BT can offer unlimited because a lot of people who know no better and have very low usage requirements pay way over the odds for their needs. This subsidises the people who take advantage of unlimited.
I wouldn't mind betting a high proportion of the people on Infinity use less than 10GB per month.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

sjrinfroyle — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:04:04 GMT

Quote from: jelv
It's worth noting that the traffic shaping Plusnet imposed when Plusnet Unlimited was introduced was pretty severe, if it was reintroduced it would have to be more severe and they'd then be faced with a barrage of complaints when users found that the traffic restrictions meant they couldn't download at anything like reasonable speeds and questioning what the point of unlimited was if the speed restrictions severely limited the amount that could be downloaded.

I am using Plusnet Unlimited and the speeds have never been severely limited, even at peak times.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

professor — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:26:43 GMT

I agree that not everyone needs a high capacity package, but in the age of on demand there are many that do. No ISP can offer the same as BT, the cheapo sellers advertise a low price which in many cases in unobtainable. BT foot the bill for constructing and maintaining the network. They are also the largest ISP by far, so must be doing something right.
I am on a market 1 exchange, so the Tesco style claim for for £3 odd Plusnet Broadband is pretty shifty marketing, and of course no mention of activation fee, router charge or caller display charge. The end result, is that after a four month nightmare with PN, I wish I had gone straight back to BT. As I am typing this, I am listening to a constantly buffering Wi-Fi radio stream. The PN anytime calls, line rental, 60gb package and caller display now cost £35 per month. Totally unlimited BT broadband, line rental and anytime calls is only about 7 or 8 pounds per month more. It is well worth that to not have to sit up after midnight to watch iPlayer, listen again or watch a movie, let alone the unlimited Wi-Fi minutes when out and about.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

jelv — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:38:21 GMT

If streaming a radio station is buffering you either have a fault which can be fixed, or you will see exactly the same problem if you move to BT. BT and Plusnet use exactly the same equipment in the exchange - so your sync speed etc will be unchanged.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:44:34 GMT

[quote=professor]not have to sit up after midnight to watch iPlayer
Why do you have to stay up ?, you can set iPlayer to download your programs overnight - and watch them during the day at a time that you choose.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

professor — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:55:17 GMT

Quote from: jelv
If streaming a radio station is buffering you either have a fault which can be fixed, or you will see exactly the same problem if you move to BT. BT and Plusnet use exactly the same equipment in the exchange - so your sync speed etc will be unchanged.

Possibly, but I still prefer an unlimited service marketed honestly.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

professor — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 22:57:51 GMT

Quote from: purleigh
[quote=professor]not have to sit up after midnight to watch iPlayer

Why do you have to stay up ?, you can set iPlayer to download your programs overnight - and watch them during the day at a time that you choose.

Possibly, but it will not record the free Sky Sport streams on the web, let alone 4od and itvplayer etc. I would never throw Sky £50 per month when I can exploit an unlimited Broadband service.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 23:26:50 GMT

You could checkout http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythNetvision, that is capable of doing all those, plus Youtube, and many others !

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

WWWombat — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 02:54:55 GMT

Quote from: professor
No ISP can offer the same as BT, the cheapo sellers advertise a low price which in many cases in unobtainable.

Actually, the whole point of setting up Openreach & BT Wholesale is that every ISP *can* be capable of offering the same as BT, because they all (including BT Retail) have "equal" access rights at equal costs.

Quote
BT foot the bill for constructing and maintaining the network.

BT Openreach construct & operate the access network, but charge the wholesalers for it. BT Wholesale construct & operate the core network, but charge the ISPs (including BT Retail) for bandwidth across it.
As I understand it, the ISPs have to book (and pay for) a certain volume in the core network - and their dimensioning departments have the job of getting this volume right for the peak hours (a balance of money vs unhappy customers). The bad news is that setting this "peak hour" bandwidth volume is expensive (and all the money going to build that core network); the good news is that this gives plenty of bandwidth for the off-peak hours that is, in essence, free. An ISP who can shift any "undesirable" traffic from the peak hour into any other period will have more options to either make more profit, or charge less.
So all ISPs have to do something to restrict the usage in peak hours, by either "the stick" (traffic management, or peak-hour usage restrictions) or "the carrot" (free usage in off-peak hours).
Anyone on an "unlimited" package is not incentivised to care about peak or off-peak considerations, so the only tool left available there is "the stick" to manage their traffic. As Jelv says, BT probably have a lot of people who don't use their allowances, and subsidise those who *do* use it. When (if) this balance changes, then BT will have to start employing that tool more widely. In the long term, an "unlimited" package that doesn't also specify how much management goes on is worthless - at least if you want some degree of certainty of the supply.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

dave1234 — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:02:37 GMT

John UK don’t let them use examples of BT they are owned by BT in 2007
jim:red All caps removed as per Forum Rule

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

WWWombat — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:07:56 GMT

@dave1234 - Who is "them"? and why shouldn't "they" use examples of BT?
Certainly Plusnet are owned by "BT" as a whole, as are the various other components. There might be some strategy that dictates what each component brings to the business as a whole, but they all run separately in operational terms.
And that means that, where Plusnet (or BT Retail, or any other ISP) depends on either BT Wholesale or BT Openreach, then the latter 2 are legally bound (by rules set by Ofcom) to treat all those ISPs identically. No special favours; no jumping to the head of the queue etc.
That means that BT Openreach (the people who own the copper line out to your house) cannot give any preferential treatment to Plusnet or their customers. Yet Plusnet (like any other ISP) depends on Openreach to maintain your line, and send out any engineers to fix things. If the line doesn't work, and the engineers are slow to fix things or don't even turn up to an appointment, then it truly is BT (as in BT Openreach) that are to blame - in such operational matters they are separate, and required by law to be separate. To get changes made, Plusnet have access to the same diagnostic tools and ordering systems that any ISP does; and when things go wrong, Plusnet have access to the same mechanisms to escalate as any other ISP.
I understand from your own thread that you have line problems, and that you are rather mad at Plusnet for their part in the process. But please don't get mad at them just because they're owned by the BT group.

Re: When will Plusnet offer unlimited usage?

rspcaben — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:57:55 GMT

I have asked plusnet about this and they said its been noted down and passed to the right department so just waiting to hear back from them