topic Re: Leaving Plusnet in Plusnet Feedback

Leaving Plusnet

steveben2004 — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:11:30 GMT

I moved from Sky to Plusnet in May this year.
Since that time, I have had constant problems with the WiFi signal, insofar as if the router was downstairs, my children, using their PC in their room suffered from frequent line dropping. If the router was moved, upstairs, then I had the same issues when using my laptop down stairs.
This was reported to Plusnet and they suggested changing channels, moving the router etc, all to no avail. They then sent me a replacement router, which worked for a week but then the same problem returned.
This was clearly not an acceptable situation so I am moving to Virgin.
Here is the crux. Plusnet want to charge me £40 for a router, which was not capable of providing a consistent signal and is thus, in my opinion, not fit for purpose. They also want to charge me £25 for providing me with a MAC code since Virgin will not be using the same cable network as Plusnet.
All of this brings to mind a section of the lyrics from Hotel California:-

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
'Relax,' said the night man,
'We are programmed to receive.
You can check-out any time you like,
But you can never leave!'

Re: Leaving Plusnet

pierre_pierre — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 06:39:32 GMT

Welcome to the Forum

and what the heck has the construction of your house got to do with Plusnet?
There are other ways to cure the problem and leaving Plusnet is not one of them

Re: Leaving Plusnet

steveben2004 — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:28:01 GMT

Thank you for the welcome.
It has nothing at all to do with the construction of my house. The router that I had with my previous ISP never gave me any issues, therefore I am led to the conclusion that the routers supplied by PlusNet are not of sufficient standard to work in my standard 3 up 2 down semi. That is my reason for leaving PlusnNet.
The source of my irritations is that :-
a) PlusNet expect me to pay for a router that was incapable of providing a consistent service
b0 PlusNet are charging me £25 in order not to use their service

Re: Leaving Plusnet

Strat — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:42:38 GMT

You could have cut your losses (probably £4.99) and bought a different router for your Plusnet broadband.
I use a Billion 7800N but there are many out there.
Edit: Tense changed

Re: Leaving Plusnet

orbrey — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:45:17 GMT

Hi there,
Thanks for your time on the phone, and I'm sorry we couldn't sort anything out for you. Best wishes with the new service.

Re: Leaving Plusnet

PeterLoftus — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:55:00 GMT

you should have posted before it got to this stage. I have a three floor building and I use a switch with homeplugs http://www.solwise.co.uk (plugging a Yorkshire company)

Re: Leaving Plusnet

steveben2004 — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:59:44 GMT

Thank you Matt for taking the time and trouble to contact me with a possible solution to the problem.
Unfortunately, I have committed to move to Virgin now, so I am not going to take you up on your suggestion. As I also mentioned to you on the phone there are other factors involved in that decision.
I only hope that your complaints team are equally as understandable when it comes to the charge that you are making for the router

Steve B

Re: Leaving Plusnet

pierre_pierre — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:07:07 GMT

to late now, but if his old router was that good, why didnt he still use it

Re: Leaving Plusnet

bobpullen — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:08:12 GMT

Pierre, Sky lock their routers. In fact IIRC they also have a clause in their T's & C's to say that you're not to use allowed to use your own equipment with their services.

Re: Leaving Plusnet

Oldjim — Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:24:12 GMT

and they won't supply a router with decent wireless capability when the one they have provided is rubbish

Re: Leaving Plusnet

steveben2004 — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:15:01 GMT

Oldjim - who are are referring to when you say that their router is rubbish ?
BTW the plot thickens. I received a message telling me to call the Customer Options Team to arrange a cessation of service. I duly did so, and spoke to a very nice lady there.. I explained to her why I was leaving PlusNet.
Haseena, told me that had she been aware of the problem in the first place, she would have supplied me with an alternative make of router, that is known to have a better signal. Unfortunately this suggestion has come too late. I agreed, reluctantly, to pay the cessation fee, but am holding out against payment for the router.
When i checked my messages today, I have received an message from Haseena :-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for choosing PlusNet Home Phone. You will receive email updates advising when the transfer is complete and how to access your Home Phone Control Panel.
We explained to you the outline of the terms and conditions when we took the order from you over the phone, you can view these in full by visiting our website and clicking on the “Legal” link which can be found at the bottom of our homepage. We assume that unless you reply to this ticket you accept the terms and conditions and we will provide the service.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I never requested the phone service !

Re: Leaving Plusnet

orbrey — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:53:04 GMT

Hi there,
I've checked the account and other than that response there's nothing to show that any phone service is being added. I can assure you that the cancellation is going ahead and that this is simply a case of the incorrect information being added to the ticket. Sorry about that, I'll make sure the agent is aware.

Re: Leaving Plusnet

mssystems — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:28:57 GMT

Quote from: steveben2004
Here is the crux. Plusnet want to charge me £40 for a router, which was not capable of providing a consistent signal and is thus, in my opinion, not fit for purpose.

I think your expectations, in terms of wi-fi and consumer rights, are unrealistic.
I take it you can get a signal in the same room as the router. If so, the router is providing a consistent signal. Beyond that, reliability of any radio signal is subject to the vagaries of the dynamic conditions within the airspace within your own property. The point at which a radio signal will become marginal depends on many variables, including the quality of the equipment, which is reflected in the price. Here, as a consumer, you have a choice as to how you spend your money and you are responsible for choosing wisely.
As an aside. There are stringent standards for operating radio equipment in the UK. All Wi-Fi routers transmit at the same signal strength, with similar specification routers having roughly similar ranges. Wireless N technology can increase the effective range in some circumstances, notably inside a building.
Marginal Wi-Fi connections, where one router reliably reaches the 2nd floor and another, of similar specification, does not. Can often be resolved by nothing more complicated than a placing a sheet of tin-foil under the router and making sure the antenna is not oriented straight up.

Re: Leaving Plusnet

steveben2004 — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:42:54 GMT

MSSystems
Thank you for your suggestion
I note your comments but having had virtually no problems with the router supplied by my previous ISP for a peiod of 4 years, I would have thought that I should expect the same from this router. There is nothing in any documentation that I have seen that tells me to wrap the router in tin foil plastic or whatever.
So, from my perspective, the router supplied is sub-standard insofar as the whole idea behind a wireless rooter is tha you can connect to the outer, from pretty well anywhere within a standard 3 bed semi.

Re: Leaving Plusnet

AlphetonWedding — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:42:21 GMT

Responding to teh lack of WiFi signal, do take note of the person who plugged http://www.solwise.co.uk/ I live in a rather large rambling old house with many rooms scattered all over the place. I have a number of Solwise solutions and can get WiFi all over the house, in the barns (200 m away) and in the garden. Solwise also have a very helpful and understanding help desk and are very competitively priced. Good company good products.

Re: Leaving Plusnet

bendipa — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:03:08 GMT

It makes me wonder when I read about all the problems home users always seem to encounter with wi-fi. . It seems that people would rather put up with all the headaches that arise from that rather than use the relatively trouble free ethernet. I wouldn't use wi-fi at home if you paid me.

Re: Leaving Plusnet

PeterLoftus — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:44:56 GMT

my problem is with computer savvy kids living in and visiting I play the role of system manager. I have to provide the service they require which is normally wifi eneabled laptops, also smartphones and IPods

Re: Leaving Plusnet

PeterLoftus — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 19:24:52 GMT

One of my brood just decided to reboot my router in the middle of its retraining because he couldn't make a connection with his laptop
I wish I knew more about router problems because the nuclear option is often used by me and he must have seen me do it

Re: Leaving Plusnet

mssystems — Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:52:35 GMT

Quote from: steveben2004
I note your comments but having had virtually no problems with the router supplied by my previous ISP for a peiod of 4 years, I would have thought that I should expect the same from this router.

With respect, you can think what you like but you need some knowledge of RF principles to have a hope of being correct about it. I have a little over 20 years professional experience with transmission systems, by the way.
There is a small chance that you have been unlucky and PN have supplied you with two broken routers. There is a much greater chance that the routers are fine and it is your expectation that is at fault. The argument you are proposing is somewhat analogous to claiming a particular car is not fit for purpose because the fuel consumption or top speed might vary slightly between examples of similar cars. The fault is expecting all similar cars too perform exactly the same way in all conditions. Patently, in all things, some variation is to be expected.

Quote
There is nothing in any documentation that I have seen that tells me to wrap the router in tin foil plastic or whatever.

CAUTION Never wrap a wireless router, or any other radio transmitter, in tin foil. You may damage the device irreparably and there is a risk of the device catching fire.
In view of your having confused a simple and safe instruction with an inadvisable and possibly dangerous configuration... I don't think I need to explain further why such tweaks are omitted from the manuals.
The radio in your router does not read the manual but never the less behaves according to Physical laws; note they are 'laws.' Those laws state that radio waves will reflect from a metallic surface, adding to the signal strength in the opposite direction. It is the same principle that causes the the metal reflector on the back of an electric fire to intensify the heat in front the fire. Radio waves and radiated heat both being examples of electro magnetic energy at different wave lengths within the same spectrum. Placing a metallic surface behind a router's antenna is safe, as the RF energy can still radiate away. Wrapping a router in tin-foil is similar to placing a metal plate directly in front an electric fire and is similarly ill-advised.

Quote
So, from my perspective, the router supplied is sub-standard insofar as the whole idea behind a wireless rooter is tha you can connect to the outer, from pretty well anywhere within a standard 3 bed semi.

From your perspective. You have a device which is most likely operating within the manufacturers specification. You are trying to argue that the device is not fit for purpose because you do not understand what the specifications means.
Where, in the documentation, did you read that, the whole idea behind a wireless router revolves around a 3 bed semi, then? No one with RF expertise is going to guarantee that a single Wi-Fi access point will entirely cover the inside space of a 3 bed family home and no manufacturer provides such a guarantee.
Wi-Fi was invented by NCR/AT&T, as a method of connecting cash registers and EPOS systems, within large open plan retail spaces, to corporate Ethernet networks. In 1991, when Wi-Fi was launched, a cheap 10mbps hub cost ~£500. Outside of corporate budgets Wi-Fi was, pie-in-the-sky, prohibitively expensive. Three bed semis were never a feature of the Wi-Fi design spec. Mass adoption of the Internet, Ethernet and eventually Wi-Fi, by the domestic market took another 15 years.
Back with the laws of Physics, 100mw @ 2.4 GHz (a wireless router) is not enough power, at too high a frequency, to guarantee penetration through walls and ceilings laced with electrical cables. Add the EMI from games consoles, computers and a multitude of other wireless devices using the unlicensed 2.4Ghz ISM band. It turns out that the typical 3 bed family semi is actually quite a challenging environment for a Wi-Fi installation. You might get coverage from a single access point but it's always going to be a marginal situation. Reliability being subject to transient environmental conditions and the design and manufacturing variations across specific devices.
So I return to where I started. I have some experience in the field and believe you are expecting too much from the technology at the price you are paying. It is your choice to apply the technology and your choice to buy the devices you buy. Manufacturers and suppliers are not responsible for your own faulty assumptions.
Separate access points located centrally on each floor would almost certainly provide you with greater satisfaction from the technology. Good luck with whatever kit you try next. Hopefully I have been informative, if not agreeable.
And Please DO NOT wrap your router in tin-foil.

Re: Leaving Plusnet

steveben2004 — Mon, 01 Aug 2011 06:38:31 GMT

Don't you just love being lectured to