topic Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages in Plusnet Feedback

New Plusnet Fibre Packages

ITWorks — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:03:37 GMT

There is a very interesting article over at ISPreview about the two new Fibre packages that PN will launch next month.
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2011/03/29/uk-isp-plusnet-launches-low-cost-40mbps-fttc-fibre-broadband-services.html
More info about the packages here
https://www.plus.net/fibre/
One of the key questions for me is how heavy traffic management will be used?
Regards
Mike

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

bobpullen — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:28:35 GMT

Quote from: ITWorks
One of the key questions for me is how heavy traffic management will be used?

There will be rate limits akin to the current Value and Extra ones, although they will be less aggressive for customers taking Fibre. There will also be a 'Pro-like' experience available so watch this space!

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

WWWombat — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:03:28 GMT

Obviously both the fibre page and the FAQ are just introductions, but one obvious bit of information missing is the uplink speed.
My guess would be that the Value package would run at 2Mbps, and Extra at 10Mbps, but its possible that the 10Mbps is being reserved for "Pro-like".

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

godsell4 — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:14:56 GMT

Why the 18month contract?
Is that an initial 18month contract reverting to a 1month contract afterwards?

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

Gus — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:55:29 GMT

Quote
Free Plusnet Fibre activation when taking Home Phone
You'll save £50 on the usual installation charge.

Thats not my definition of free and considering the 18 month contract, why isn't the installation fee waived unless the customer leaves before 18 months?

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

WWWombat — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:20:44 GMT

Quote from: Gus
Thats not my definition of free.

The FAQ page says:
[quote=https://www.plus.net/fibre/faq.shtml]If you're a new customer
It costs £50 to install fibre broadband. However, if you add our Home Phone service to your package, you'll get fibre installed for free until the end of June 2011.
If you're already a customer
It costs £25 to install fibre broadband. However, if you already have our Home Phone service, or add Home Phone to your package, you'll get fibre installed for free until the end of June 2011.
Do those meet your definition? £50 - £50 = £0 seems free to me, without any indication of it being re-applied if you leave within the notice period.

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

Gus — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:32:26 GMT

To get the Free option shouldn't mean I have to change from BT for my phone line. Having watched the forum for the last year about using PN's homephone, I wouldn't as its proven to be a problem too many times for too many customers. I have had zero issues with BT providing my phone line other than price but PN's is hardly much better.

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

grahamt — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:17:51 GMT

Current users get free installation until the end of June. OK - nice. However, that's not much use to those of us connected to cabinets that aren't due to get FTTC until after June. How about changing the rule to something like 'until the end of June or within three months of your cabinet being connected'?
Yes - I realise that this would be more complicated. But if the idea is to encourage existing users to change, why limit the encouragement to only users who live in early connection areas? (A simpler way could be to make it free for existing users who register interest by the end of June.)
Graham (cabinet due for connection by 1st July - but the date has been put back by BT twice already)

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

Steve — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 16:49:51 GMT

Quote from: Gus
Having watched the forum for the last year about using PN's homephone, I wouldn't as its proven to be a problem too many times for too many customers..

I am not being rude toward you but you cant judge plusnets home phone based on this forum, You will only see no end to problems If your basing your judgement like that, As a plusnet home phone customer for more than a year I can honestly tell you the service has been faultless, Yes that's correct " Faultless"

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

machare — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 20:59:54 GMT

Will the Plusnet fibre product be available to anyone connected to an FTTC enabled cabinet, or will there be line speed/signal loss restrictions? I see that BT now have a product (BT Option 3 with fibre) for customers who can't get 15mbps.
There is 5km of cable between my house and the cabinet which serves me. As this is less than the 6.1km distance from my house to the exchange, FTTC would be an improvement and I would be willing to pay the very small additional cost.

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

cja — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:33:29 GMT

I've been a customer since 2003 and the service has been good but not convinced by the new packages, but I do want the speed, FTTC is predicting x8 on download and that is too good to miss, plus the upload.
When I see BTs 300GB and free open zone, the 120GB doesn't look good but there are a few details which might change my mind.
1, On the Extra packages , is it 2Mb/s upload or 10 Mb/s ?
It needs to be 10Mb/s from my perspective.
2, What does the Pro packages give ?
Given Fibre is so fast I'm not sure prioritised traffic helps, a bigger allowance would be good. If the Pro is 10Mb/s but has a lower allowance than the extra, which would fit the current positioning, then the Pro wouldn't be much use in my view. So if value and extra are 2 Mb/s and Pro has a lower data allowance than the Extra, I will have to move.
3. Can we retain domains, webspace, etc from the old packages ?
Before suggesting the out of hours is unlimited, doesn't help my usage which is predominantly iplayer, browser and a bit of working at home, so its the 8am to midnight slot which counts.
I don't really want to migrate but I'm not convinced you are going to produce a package that fits my needs.
Chris

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

WWWombat — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:49:39 GMT

Quote from: machare
There is 5km of cable between my house and the cabinet which serves me. As this is less than the 6.1km distance from my house to the exchange, FTTC would be an improvement and I would be willing to pay the very small additional cost.

I suspect that 5km is too much for the VDSL2 protocol to handle. Even if it weren't, you're likely to be under the threshold considered by BT Openreach as the minimum (5Mbps, otherwise they undo the installation).
There's a couple of posts by someone who had problems with a 4.2km line. However, we don't see whether it worked or not...
- Anyone got FTTC to work at 4.2km from cabinet?
- 40/10 vs 10/2 with FTTC

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

godsell4 — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:04:08 GMT

Quote from: cja
Given Fibre is so fast I'm not sure prioritised traffic helps ...

this comment means you may not have understood the means of the traffic prioritisation. Look at the traffic types which are rate limited by PN on the tables shown as http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/plusnet_shaping.htm on those listed as 'NR - Not Restricted' will go as fast as the FTTC connection will allow, look at how rate limited things are on Value at peak times of the day ... you will get this on FTTC too.

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

cja — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:08:30 GMT

Well I think I do understand, the quote earlier from Bob was "There will be rate limits akin to the current Value and Extra ones, although they will be less aggressive for customers taking Fibre.", given I don't have issue on my current slow line, I can't see that improved traffic prioritisation is an advantage ... for me, as I said my main use is iplayer and browser which are NR.
Relatively speaking a faster connection will have less issues. assuming its relative traffic prioritisation and not absolute speeds. I note the newer broadband packages have more absolute speeds than my older package, but in most cases I don't use p2p, usenet, FTP, etc.
I accept some people will find Pro useful but with if your personal bottleneck is the Local Loop, then increased priority in plusnet's central network isn't really a strong sales point.
Chris

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

amcclean — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:05:12 GMT

Will there be knock on increase to usage allowance for those on 21cn but not on fibre. Like many others I'm on pro at 16.49 I see the new package for the same price the usage allowance is 40Gb as opposed to 20Gb will the current pro on 21cn remain with 20gb or increase.
Sadly the fibre roll out in Scotland appears to be much slower than elsewhere 😞
I think there are only a handful of exchanges going live this year. (less than 10)
Modification make that 8 this year to give a grand total of 20 by march 2012

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

Peter_Vaughan — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:15:58 GMT

I'm not aware of any plans for PN to change any of the older/legacy products.... in fact they are very rarely changed when new products are introduced.
So Pro (which will become a legacy product when the fibre products are released) will stay as it is for all connection types, even those with a FTTC/FTTP connection (like me).
It will be up to those already on a fibre connection to decide if any of the newer fibre products are more suitable.
While package management will be relaxed on the new fibre products and they also have higher usage alowances, PN still have a limited bandwidth available so restrictions will still be imposed based on the product you are on... this includes line speed restrictions. More details on what these will be will be released 'soon' I believe.

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

TicnTac — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 23:09:43 GMT

You need to remember for some people on the pretty glass wires the upload will be a restricted 1Mbs and the download will be 6Mbs - yes there will be people on ADSL paying far less getting a greater speed
For example:

Quote
Your cabinet is planned to have WBC FTTC by 5th April 2011. Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 14.1Mbps and upstream line speed of 4.8Mbps.

To clarify, this is "estimated", and "up to" - for some people like us, Fibre will be a stable usable connection compared to ADSL, nothing more, there will be no bells and whistles, and with the horrific traffic management, it will only prove better than our current ADSL because
a) It should work
b) It will be a tad faster up and down
c) It will be stable
d) It won't have any of the flaws or issues associated with ADSL
e) We won't have to post about ADSL faults for nearly a year on the Plusnet Feedback forum
We're expecting about 1Mbs up (which means up to 1Mbs) and about 6Mbs down - far better than the current ADSL state of play, of course all of this if the fibre cab gets put back together again
We shall just have to wait and see!

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

amcclean — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:13:38 GMT

Quote from: Peter
I'm not aware of any plans for PN to change any of the older/legacy products.... in fact they are very rarely changed when new products are introduced.
So Pro (which will become a legacy product when the fibre products are released) will stay as it is for all connection types, even those with a FTTC/FTTP connection (like me).

It would be ashame to see current customers who have no current prospect being given FTTC/ FTTP no extra bandwidth allowance for the same price as those fortunate enough to have or be getting fibre.
When 21cn is only just being rolled out to the massess is it really fair to say we'll transfer you to this newer product with greater potential for increased speed but give you nothing extra becuase you still can't get fibre.
upto 24mb is leagcy before it's time 😞
I am currently looking at other providers who offer greater allowances so I can use my new upgraded speed to watch iplayer etc. 20Gb on Pro is holding me back.

podman

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

adamwalker — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:36:44 GMT

As you pointed out Tim there are other advantages of being on fibre apart from just the speeds. All seems to be set still for the 5th which is encouraging at least.
I'll be in touch soon.
Adam

Re: New Plusnet Fibre Packages

bobpullen — Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:04:23 GMT

Quote from: WWWombat
Obviously both the fibre page and the FAQ are just introductions, but one obvious bit of information missing is the uplink speed.

It will be 2Mb/s across the board at launch. Trialists will retain whatever upload speeds they're receiving at the moment.

Quote from: godsell4
Why the 18month contract?

We're contracted to 18 months at a wholesale level.

Quote from: godsell4
Is that an initial 18month contract reverting to a 1month contract afterwards?

Yes.

Quote from: Gus
Quote
Free Plusnet Fibre activation when taking Home Phone
You'll save £50 on the usual installation charge.

Thats not my definition of free and considering the 18 month contract, why isn't the installation fee waived unless the customer leaves before 18 months?

The 'free' option *is* deferred, however it's over 12 months rather than 18 due to certain industry regulations.

Quote from: grahamt
Current users get free installation until the end of June. OK - nice. However, that's not much use to those of us connected to cabinets that aren't due to get FTTC until after June. How about changing the rule to something like 'until the end of June or within three months of your cabinet being connected'?

Whilst ideal in principal, that would be *very* difficult to implement from a system perspective and IME would be prone to complications.

Quote from: machare
Will the Plusnet fibre product be available to anyone connected to an FTTC enabled cabinet, or will there be line speed/signal loss restrictions? I see that BT now have a product (BT Option 3 with fibre) for customers who can't get 15mbps.

As long as your speed estimate is above 5Mbps then you should be fine. Anything below this and it's unlikely we'll offer the service.

Quote from: cja
2, What does the Pro packages give ?

There will not be a Pro package as such, but there will be an option for those who are adverse to the rate limiting on the Value and Extra products. Watch this space for further details...