topic Re: I am furious with Plusnet in Plusnet Feedback

I am furious with Plusnet

Rustyme — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:15:00 GMT

Well silly me joined Plusnet around a Month ago and got ripped off for £22 cancellation charge from BT for the privilage- seems all Telecom companies are rip poff merchants just like Utility and bank services.
So Three weeks in and I am very happy, receiving 15mb speeds as advised before join up on my 20 mb connection, sure could be better but that was very aceptable.
Then disaster struck and my broadband went down. I won't go into all the details here but basically I have just got back online after 10 days without a broadband service and guess what - not so much as a sorry about that from Plusent let alone any goodwill gesture.
Well I have complained formally about that but I was on my way to forgiving them as all that really matters to me is a fast reliable connection but I noticed that my speed didn't seem as fast as before so I tried a speedtest - sure enough 11 meg.
I then ran the BT diagnostic and lo and behold I have found out that my IP profile is now set up for 12 meg which basically means I can get 12 meg max!
So now I am apparently paying for a 20 meg service and receiving 11 meg meaning I have basically been cheated by Plusnet - I mean why the hell am I paying for 9 meg of bandwith I am not receiving as an 8 meg connection would pretty much be just as good and why did Plusnet advise me I would get 15 meg (which I did until my problem) if there was avery good chance it would not be stable and need to be reduced?
Guess what Plusnet?
I am furious and will be looking into my options.

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

David_W — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:22:12 GMT

I'm sure there is a logical reason you're on 12Mb, a line fault could do that and 24 hours later when the line is stable your speed improves, it stops people being on unstable lines and disconnecting often.

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

Force9Original — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:26:20 GMT

More like BT's line managment finding its Maximum Stable Rate (MSR) if you've only just got ADSL2+ back ?
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/broadband_terminology.shtml#bras

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

amcclean — Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:35:25 GMT

HI Rustyme,
like every adsl service the tag lines say UPTO 20mb etc. not 20mb guaranteed! There is no non cable ISP able to provide such a promise.
with every glitch there may be a short time when your line speed drops. any speed drop is annoying but at least you get a decent speed. I was on 8128 for a couple of years and now i only sync at between 3500 and 4800 so having used to get a download speed at full pelt i now only get 3500 or 4000.
Speed changes are run of the mill and not down to PN

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

Rustyme — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 04:08:44 GMT

Speed changes are not run of the mill at all unless you are talking about traffic - I am not.
My line is now synched for 12 meg so there is no possible way I can get more than that yet I was advised beofre sign up that I would get 15 meg which is what I got before my service went down. It has been corrected downward because obviously it lost synch at 15 meg so the 15 meg I was told I would get has now become 11 meg that is almost 50% of the advertised speed.
If you think that is acceptable and judging by other replies here you are not on your own then I am not surprised we get such ridiculously bad service and poor speeds from our ISP's
Seriously 10 days without a connection, then a reduction in speed without notification, absolutely no apology or suggestion of a reduction in cost to equate with the reduction in service and people think that is acceptable?
You can be sure I wouldn't of signed up and paid the extra for a 20 meg package if I had been told i would be getting 11 meg.
As for this being a temporary change I somewhat doubt it as all the tests for best speed and stability are carried out in the first 10 days, obviously they are not much use though.
If it is increased to something approaching a reasonable speed for a 20 meg connection that I will take some of the criticism back but until then it is valid and it stands.
adie:quote

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

smiffyb36 — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:16:59 GMT

FYI national average for non cable suppliers is speeds of 3.5 - 4.5 meg so your speed is not bad. The 15meg speed is based on perfect line conditions, I could be wrong but it seems the systems have dropped the speed to stop the errors and disconnections. People aren't just accepting these problems as you say and allowing the problems to continue, they just have a deeper understanding of how these things work and the way speed will be adjusted when errors occur.
Please be patient, if the profile can go higher it will but can take a few days for BT and plusnet profiles to catch up to each other to readjust but it may very well be that this is the correct functional speed for your line (lots of knowledgable people here so if my explanation is a little incorrect or not clear enough i'm sure they'll explain a little better :))

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

TicnTac — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:07:48 GMT

Quote
I am furious with Plusnet

Been trying to that for the past 8 months, almost 9, my other half is a lot better at it than me, any hints? Best to breathe deeply, and see what happens, they're very good at sorting things out you know, eventually anyway, almost
Best of luck, and after all, it is only an Internet connection, unless it is life and death, try not to stress too much, it's coming up to that special time of year again

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

adamwalker — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:52:45 GMT

Rustyme,
Thanks for raising this, I am sorry that you feel that we have not apologised for the issue, it is our place to do so even if we are not directly responsible for issues encountered by our customers. So apologies for the inconvenience.

Quote
I am apparently paying for a 20 meg service

We will provide all our customers with the fastest connection available to them, for some people it is up to 8mb, for most its up to 20, please bear in mind the up to is the key part of this and we do not charge customers differently for speed, we cost our packages based on the features and services offered.

Quote
let alone any goodwill gesture.

We will look towards doing this but I would like to take a detailed look at the fault notes first before I can commit to a precise offering.

Quote
...which basically means I can get 12 meg max!

This may not be the case forever, I will look into this for you and see if any movements can be made as it may be possible. However we need you to bear in mind that sometimes slight reductions in speed can and will happen with a view to resolving a fault or stabilising an otherwise fault-prone service.
If you read some of the other posts on this forum that relate to other customers experiences with this you will see that some have seen increased speeds and some have not in favour of a stable service. This fact is not unique to the service we provide as an ISP but is due to the technology used which is now widespread.

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

zubel — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:30:02 GMT

Quote from: Rustyme
Speed changes are not run of the mill at all unless you are talking about traffic - I am not.

Your presumption is incorrect. BT employ a system called Dynamic Line Management (DLM). The Dynamic part means it will constantly be reassessing the quality of your line and making improvements in either speed or stability.

Quote from: Rustyme
My line is now synched for 12 meg so there is no possible way I can get more than that yet I was advised beofre sign up that I would get 15 meg which is what I got before my service went down. It has been corrected downward because obviously it lost synch at 15 meg so the 15 meg I was told I would get has now become 11 meg that is almost 50% of the advertised speed.

The 15Mbps figure you were quoted was an "estimate". With all the best will in the world, an "estimate" is just that.... an "estimate". It is based on various factors, but primarily it is based on the attenuation figure recorded by BT periodically, (if you previously had a BT Wholesale provided ISP line), or by historic line length data also held by BT. There are literally hundreds of external factors than can affect this "estimate", including such silly things like RF spikes from central heating boilers, christmas lights, malfuctioning exterior street lights etc.

Quote from: Rustyme
As for this being a temporary change I somewhat doubt it as all the tests for best speed and stability are carried out in the first 10 days, obviously they are not much use though.
If it is increased to something approaching a reasonable speed for a 20 meg connection that I will take some of the criticism back but until then it is valid and it stands.

See the answer to the first point. Dynamic Line Management is in operation all the time. However, sometimes it can move at pre-cretaceous speeds.
All the above points being said, it sounds like you have had a fault. One of the first things that the automated BT systems will do when it detects a fault is to either apply Interleaving, which reduces your sync rate by a small margin, or to increase your default SNR Margin from 6dB to 15dB in 3dB increments to help 'boost' the signal over background noise. Each 3dB increase in SNR Margin equates to a loss in sync of around 800Kbps. My back-of-a-napkin maths tells me that's around 2.4Mbps, plus a reduction for Interleaving which could account for your loss in sync.
Whilst your frustration is understandable, the course of action most likely to garner results is a polite but questioning post on the forums in the first instance. There are many factors that are either (A ) under your control or (B ) under Plusnet's control than can be used to ensure that you get the best possible speed out of your connection.
Anyhoo, you're in good hands with Adam - I'm sure he can advise from a Plusnet point of view.
B.

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

daveplus — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:11:02 GMT

Rustme
Were the termination charges more than those specified at http://www.bt.com/termcharges ?
Dave

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

Townman — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:12:41 GMT

Quote from: Barry
There are many factors that are either (A ) under your control or (B ) under Plusnet's control...

...and more so (C) solely under BT's control impacting all ISPs - essentially the length of the crappy copper pair that joins your home to their local exchange. No ISP can directly influence that part of the service.
Until BT get their act together and get fiber quality circuits out to all premises, you are going to get what you get - a service that varies as frequently as the weather... dampness in the joints plays havoc with BB speeds!

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

Force9Original — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:25:06 GMT

Thats wise words by smiffyb36
A understanding on how line management works before blaming ISP's is wise
The DLM uses a Delay doubler algorithm will take at least 28 days ( two cycles of 14) if the line is good before an SNR reset.
Thanks f9o

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

Oldjim — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:27:12 GMT

I have removed a number of unhelpful and inaccurate posts and the responses directly related to them.
If you want to discuss the matter of contractual liability further please start a new thread

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

adamwalker — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:58:49 GMT

Rustyme,
I've checked with our faults experts and also with our suppliers in more detail and can advise that DLM has lowered the speed as you were off-line for a number of days. This should automatically improve over the course of the next few days and an SNR reset should kick this into action a little quicker so I'll go ahead and do that now.
EDIT: forgot to mention we need to perform an SNR reset as the engineer who visited yesterday performed a line card reset at the exchange.

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

Force9Original — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:10:20 GMT

"Automatically improve over the course of the next few days "?
If the DLM is left to its own algo it will be a least 28 days and that if delay doubler is set at its lowest 0 setting.
Going off the EP 2 169 980 A1 guide
setting /days
0 = 14
1 =28 -
2= 56
3 =112
4 =224
5 = 448
I do think Plusnet should go into a lot more detail on how the BT system works. It would save a lot of miss directed frustrations.
Thanks f9o

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

adamwalker — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:13:34 GMT

Thanks Force9Original,
The SNR reset should resolve this, otherwise I'll request that DLM is taken off for this customer

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

amcclean — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 18:16:21 GMT

To those who replied in similar response to myself thankyou. I sometimes wonder if trying to be helpful in here is worth it. If it wasn't for helpful replies then we would all be stuck.
podman

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

adamwalker — Thu, 16 Dec 2010 11:27:50 GMT

Quote
I sometimes wonder if trying to be helpful in here is worth it

That's why its called the community forum podman

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

magnetism2772 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 16:56:01 GMT

a community via silent nods and winks from plusnet to delete members posts
delete press reports that help those in trouble
and a community guarded in KGB fashion
[Moderator's note by Barry Zubel: Private communication from Mods removed as per link:rules]

Re: I am furious with Plusnet

magnetism2772 — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:01:00 GMT

that particular ban ended today