topic Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark in Plusnet Feedback

Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

jelv — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:33:36 GMT

It is with some concern that I have noted over the recent past a greater degree of interference in the running of these forums by certain Plusnet staff members. When the Community site and forums were launched in July 2007a FAQ was published. To quote one section:

Quote
- What is the Moderation Policy on the community site?
Our existing moderators have kindly agreed to continue moderating the forums, using the same policies as applied on the Portal Forums. You can find these rules posted in the forums. The moderation policies may change over time, but as with any decisions like this it will be left to the moderators to decide how the forums are moderated. PlusNet goes to great pains not to interfere with the day to day of the forums and it’s important to us that the community site is run by the community even though it is provided by PlusNet.

Note the last sentence: PlusNet goes to great pains not to interfere with the day to day of the forums... Great play has been made of this in the past - so why the change of policy?

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

geewizz — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:40:40 GMT

I have spent a great deal of time on these forums and can't say that I have noticed any interference from Plusnet staff on them. Certainly there is plenty of evidence of participation but that can't be what you're citing here.
I would be disappointed if Plusnet staff members were not considered to be members of the Plusnet community, same as everyone else with a connection to plusnet, and therefore I would welcome their input in discussions as much as anyone else's.
I appreciate that I may have missed the incidents you are calling into question though.

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

Oldjim — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:51:51 GMT

One was in your thread under testimonials, I think

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

jelv — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:54:30 GMT

Correct Jim. That was the final instance that prompted my post.

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

geewizz — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:00:11 GMT

I would have classed that as participation rather than interference. It was phrased as a suggestion or request.
I don't know, I just think "interference" evokes something more like a bit of meddling with the moderation or something.
(Can you hear my shoulders creak when I shrug?)

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

petejackson — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:12:41 GMT

Wasn't Ian just suggesting that a thread might be more suited to a different forum or sub-forum? He's just concerned that the new forum structure be effective I think. There's nothing that is meant in any way to undermine the mods day-to-management of the forums. And, correct me if i'm wrong, he never suggested moving it himself. He's just close to it I think because he was part of the team that helped define the new structure. Speaking of which what do you think of it?

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

Heloman — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:16:31 GMT

Agree with you geewiz. It was just a suggestion by Ian:
"Ps - is it OK if I move this post to a more relevant forum than testimonials?"
rather than interference. A moderator might have just moved it without asking
To be honest I haven't noticed any of the interference by PN staff that is worrying jelv.

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

geewizz — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:19:33 GMT

I'm glad this has come up because I hadn't really thought aboiut it before but it does make sense for plusnet staff to remain detached from the moderation of the forums. When I first read the sentence in that Moderation Policy I thought it was a strange thing to delineate but I can see the strong argument for the policy to maintain that sense of trust that Plusnet have strived to establish.
Therefore if there was any interference then it would be quite an important issue. Even the perception of interference is important to discuss because it shouldn't be allowed to fester.

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

Oldjim — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:20:57 GMT

Quote from: Peter
And, correct me if i'm wrong, he never suggested moving it himself.

Quote from: Ian
Ps - is it OK if I move this post to a more relevant forum than testimonials?

Not - would you mind if I asked a mod to move but can I move it

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

geewizz — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:23:30 GMT

Yeah but when it comes down to it, he wasn't going to move it without permission. So if it was moved, it didn't really matter who actioned it, it was who discussed it that mattered and in this case it wasn't going to be an exclusively plusnet staff decision.

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

jelv — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:31:36 GMT

Quote from: Peter
And, correct me if i'm wrong, he never suggested moving it himself.

That's an interesting interpretation of what he said:

Quote from: Ian
Ps - is it OK if I move this post to a more relevant forum than testimonials?

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

Oldjim — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:33:55 GMT

Quote from: geewizz
Yeah but when it comes down to it, he wasn't going to move it without permission. So if it was moved, it didn't really matter who actioned it, it was who discussed it that mattered and in this case it wasn't going to be an exclusively plusnet staff decision.

Agreed - however the request was to you as the OP.
if you had said yes he would apparently have done it completely bypassing the moderators.

Quote
PlusNet goes to great pains not to interfere with the day to day of the forums

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

jelv — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:40:20 GMT

Quote from: geewizz
I would be disappointed if Plusnet staff members were not considered to be members of the Plusnet community, same as everyone else with a connection to plusnet, and therefore I would welcome their input in discussions as much as anyone else's.

Exactly, and like any other member of the forums he could have used "Report to moderator" to suggest that it needed to be moved.

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

geewizz — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:41:20 GMT

Quote from: Oldjim
Agreed - however the request was to you as the OP.

I hadn't actually read it that way but on reflection, you're right, it was addressed to me.

Quote
if you had said yes he would apparently have done it completely bypassing the moderators.

Again I concede that was the implication.
I guess I have to stand aside now and let someone else take the stand.

[Call the next witness!]

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

techguy — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:50:40 GMT

Don't PN staff count as mods? (please forgive the question as I've not been around here very long)
Surely if the OP agrees there is no problem?

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

Be3G — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:51:10 GMT

Some (or perhaps all, I'm not sure) members of staff do have moderating powers, but the idea is that all decisions go through the moderators so that PlusNet aren't seen as meddling with customers' freedom of speech etc. (bearing in mind that all of the moderators are just normal un-rewarded customers themselves).

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

jelv — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:58:14 GMT

I think we all accept that in extreme circumstances Plusnet may have to step in. I don't think any of us would consider a post in what some people may consider the wrong forum meets that criteria!

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

Ianwild — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:04:35 GMT

Well, when I said "I", I wasn't thinking I'd do it myself... And I didn't want to report it to a mod cause I wasn't sure if it was a good suggestion or not (it wasn't on reflection).
Point taken though - I've asked the admin guru to remove my own mod rights just in case I get carried away.
I (we) believe as strongly today that the communtity should be running these forums as we (you) always have. I just hope the next mod recruitment exercise will result in some more willing volunteers, cause anything I reckon we would do is simply because those guys have been a little thin on the ground recently at times.
Ian
PS - I believe in transparency and directness. There is no need to beat around the bush in discussing these things - I'm unlikely to take offence, especially as I'm all too aware that my approach can be a little 'disruptive' at times.

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

techguy — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:42:18 GMT

Don't worry Ian, I too have the errr quality of being direct and voicing my opinion which isn't akways popular but I can't be doing with sheeple* anyway
*Sheeple are people that mindlessly follow others for the sake of fitting in, a bit like err sheep but with less wool

Re: Plusnet staff overstepping the mark

jelv — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:47:44 GMT

As I said in reply 3, this was the final instance that prompted my post.
If you look in Web Hosting (including PAYH), the first post on the majority of the subjects has something like "« Last Edit: Thu 16-10-2008, 18:36:59 by Ian Wild »".
I thought the rule of these forums was that if a post was modified in any way a moderators note was added to explain what was done - certainly all the modding by the official mods is annotated that way. It looks as if the change that was made was to add the platform to the topic title.
I can't recall any discussion/agreement by the members of this community as to whether this should be (a) adopted or (b) if so should it be retrospectively applied to all existing posts. Could someone point me to where it was discussed/agreed please.