topic Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges in Plusnet Feedback

Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

baldrick — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 14:50:05 GMT

I live in a Market 1 Telephone Exchange area. As a consequence I have to pay an extra £6 per month line rental. Presumably this is because BT Wholesale have a monopoly where I live. I understand that market 3 areas pay £6 per month less because there is competition due to LLU and this applies to allegedly 80% of the country. This suggests to me that this is the fair price for this service, which apart from the competition angle is an identical service to that which is provided for me..
Why isn't there a fuss being made about this? Am I the only one feeling ripped off?

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

pierre_pierre — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 16:07:33 GMT

because OFCOM has said that BT have to charge high prices to induce LLU operators to offer there service. And that is all

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

Mand — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 09:35:46 GMT

Hi there,
The reason we charge differently in different areas is because we pay different costs in these areas.
This is a result of Ofcom's strategy to maintain the retail broadband market through encouraging competition.
There's a help page explaining this here.

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

MakeTeaNotWar — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:31:15 GMT

Couldnt you do it on a tiered system so that market 2 while not as discounted and cheap as 3 still get a discount? or is it the same costs for 1 & 2 ?
adie:quote

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

Mand — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:28:51 GMT

It's the same cost to us. We only get a discount in Market 3.
Market 2 in realistic terms just means it may become Market 3 if there's a little more investment.

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

pjmarsh — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 12:18:58 GMT

Not quite Mand! My market 2 exchange just needs another 6000 premises to become a market 3 exchange
Phil

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

Mand — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:33:49 GMT

Building houses is investment!
I feel for ya, I'm on a market 1 exchange

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

pjmarsh — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:38:27 GMT

It could be worse! You could be one of the properties that can't get any broadband at all!
Phil

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

198kHz — Mon, 19 Apr 2010 15:27:24 GMT

Or even worse - like my friend whose property lies between two exchange areas; BT have quoted him c. £10,000 for a phone line.

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

Mand — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 15:00:37 GMT

Ouch!
I've seen some mad costs for lines outside cost limits, but 10k is pretty steep.

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

baldrick — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:05:08 GMT

I can understand the logic of high prices to encourage other suppliers where there are thousands of lines connected to an exchange. I live in a rural village with a total of around 700 lines. How on earth can it be cost effective for several operators to unbundle so few lines?
Ho Hum, so that's it. I'm being ripped off on the orders of them who I thought were supposed to protect my interests!

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

Santiago — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 16:34:54 GMT

Quote from: baldrick
Ho Hum, so that's it. I'm being ripped off on the orders of them who I thought were supposed to protect my interests!

Fact of life living in the UK I'm afraid although I understand some things are cheaper in Scotland.

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

198kHz — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 17:19:51 GMT

Isn't it the case that Ofcom's ruling means that it's cheaper in Market 3, rather than it being dearer in Markets 1 & 2?

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

pint — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:27:10 GMT

Im stuck on a market 1 exchange, and it looks doubtful that that will change any time soon, as it only servers 3,025 residential customers and 225 non residential customers.
arent all LLU exchanges in the tens of thousands of customers bracket?
Apart from that it feels like plusnet are using our higher subscriptions to subsidise their low prices to the lucky ones who are on a market 3 exchange.

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

198kHz — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:49:56 GMT

Obviously, LLU operators are only interested in the larger exchanges. Therefore, AIUI (I'm happy to be corrected) OFCOM's ruling allows BT Wholesale to cut prices to the IPStream ISPs in Market 3 areas, where competition is strong, allowing BT to retain a share of the market. If they didn't, IPStream ISPs such as Plusnet would be squeezed out of Market 3, and their prices would be even higher in Markets 1 & 2.

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

avatastic — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 18:54:35 GMT

Quote from: pint
Im stuck on a market 1 exchange, and it looks doubtful that that will change any time soon, as it only servers 3,025 residential customers and 225 non residential customers.

Ohh look at the big city boy!

Quote
Serves (approx): 1,479 residential premises
152 non-residential premises.

I'm still confused by the market system.
I'm Market 1 (unsurprising given the figures quoted above), so that means BT can charge more because they have the monopoly? How does that encourage competition exactly?

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

Oldjim — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 19:16:58 GMT

You have it the wrong way round.
OFCOM dictate the price BT can charge and they make it high enough that in theory the LLU operators can come in and make a good profit

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

pjmarsh — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:39:02 GMT

Quote from: Force
Isn't it the case that Ofcom's ruling means that it's cheaper in Market 3, rather than it being dearer in Markets 1 & 2?

Kinda. Ofcom have always forced BT to charge a certain price for lines. This is to make it worthwhile for LLU operators to put there equipment in an exchange, as they can undercut BT, get a good share of customers and get their investment back. The Ofcom ruling last year (or whenever it was) was to allow BT to charge whatever they like in Market 3 exchanges, and hence complete with LLU operators. So while this ruling is making it cheaper in Market 3 areas, that's only because an easlier one has made it more expensive.
Phil

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

198kHz — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:47:30 GMT

Thanks Jim & Phil for clarification.

Re: Market 1 and 2 Telephone Exchanges

Mand — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:09:50 GMT

Jim and Phil have summed things up pretty well here.
Ultimately, on the smaller exchanges there is not much realistic prospect of investment as it would take far too long for LLU operators to get that investment back.