topic Re: I WAS very happy in Plusnet Feedback

I WAS very happy

Roberto0151 — Sat, 29 May 2010 18:04:30 GMT

Now I'm just puzzled.
I joined Plusnet from Tiscali/TT towards the end of February. The switchover went very well and the speeds were at least as good as I could have expected.
Then, after about a month, the download speeds started to become a little less reliable but still acceptable and an improvement on the 8 to 900 kbps I had been getting from T/TT.
During April things went a little bit haywire and in the last week or so the download speeds have been little more than the up speeds.
These are the data I have from the BT speedtester:
Date 28/2 14/04 19/05 23/05
Max achievable speed 2000 1000 2000 500

Download speed in test 1406 383 1307 452

Acceptable range 400 - 2000 200 - 1000 400 - 2000 50 - 500

DSL connection rates Down/Up 1824/448 1184/448 1888/448 1696/448

IP profile 1500 1000 1500 500
( all figs. in Kbps )

This is a link to a screenshot of a graph of the results of a number of ThinkBroadband speed tests since just after I joined PN.
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/marcusb9/ScreenCap29510?authkey=Gv1sRgCLHO8KjB9KH01gE#5476706134536298242

And these are my router stats today:
Uptime: 0 days, 7:42:09
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 896
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 15.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.5 / 63.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10.0 / 12.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 22 / 2,604
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 22 / 257
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 15 / 150
I don't know whether all the above might help someone more tech savvy than myself to make sense of what is happening, but I must admit it might as well be in hieroglyphics as far as I am concerned.

Reading today in another thread I noticed that Mand wrote that it might help to reboot for a short period early in the day, and I got the impression that
it might be assumed that both computer and router would be switched on 24/7. Being a good little electricity saver, my practice is to switch off the router overnight and to hibernate the computer during the day when not in use, which seems reasonable for domestic use.
Is this a bad idea as far as speed is concerned?

Sorry about this long rant, but I'm feeling less than happy at the moment and am looking for some help in interpreting what is happening.

Re: I WAS very happy

penfold — Sat, 29 May 2010 19:37:06 GMT

hi roberto, welcome to the forums....
your stats show that you have a very long line, and so your speeds will be reduced. To be honest with your attenuation of 63.5 ( which may be untrue, as some routers cannot display more than this), on ADSL you should be getting syncs around 1200-1500, which equates to around 1000 throughput in reals terms. On ADSL2, you may squeeze a little more out. Your SNR is raised at 12dB, so if this reduced you may get a little more. I don't want to sound negative, but being realistic this is best case. however, we should rule out wiring issues. Can you post the same stats, connected to the Master Socket TEST socket, which you can get at, by removing the front half of the master socket. ( Assuming you have a new style Master socket).
Post these stats and we can see where we stand.

Re: I WAS very happy

Roberto0151 — Sat, 29 May 2010 20:53:58 GMT

Hello Penfold, thanks for your reply.
Regrettably, the test socket is a problem. Some time ago I fitted a BT iPlate and the long screws supplied with it have jammed the faceplate which can't now be removed without risking breaking up the whole unit. (A friendly electrician had a go but didn't want to go further in case he brought down BT on us.)
I do have a fairly long line. I don't know whether or not it goes cross country, but if it follows the road I guess it must be at least 2.1/2 miles, perhaps a bit more.
I think that if I could be sure of a reliable speed of around 1000 I should be reasonably content - at least I could be fairly sure of being able to stream internet radio, which isn't always easy at present.

Re: I WAS very happy

Roberto0151 — Mon, 31 May 2010 15:46:17 GMT

Here's an update.
I'm getting around 700 Kbps download speed today. And Pingtest .net still says that my connection is very good with zero packet loss, 39 ms ping and 2 ms jitter.
I guess we must be grateful for small mercies.
(I left my router switched on all last night - I wonder if that might have any connection with the improvement?)

Re: I WAS very happy

pierre_pierre — Mon, 31 May 2010 15:53:15 GMT

yes, you should try and leave it on for the first ten days so that BT can assess the line, it is said that a single modem disconnect in the morning helps.
after the ten days if you turn the router off overnight you should make sure that you turn it on between the hours of say 8 an 3 pm, (In the winter 1 hour after sunrise to one hour before)

Just been back and read your first post. Sometimes, It happened to me once, you get bumped by BT and that can take up to 3 days to get back,

Re: I WAS very happy

Roberto0151 — Mon, 31 May 2010 16:16:49 GMT

Thanks Pierre for the helpful comments.
Usually I've been turning the router on abt. 7.30 am and off abt. 9.30 pm, but I'll leave it on 24/7 for a while and see what that brings forth.
P.s. Congrats on being retired - I've been at "leisure" for over 20 years now. Never had to work so hard in my life.

Re: I WAS very happy

jelv — Mon, 31 May 2010 16:51:51 GMT

Turning on at 7:30 am is rather earlier than recommended, so if you are using it early morning leaving it on all the time is the better option. A reboot once a day between 10am and 3pm wouldn't do any harm and might help.

Re: I WAS very happy

Roberto0151 — Mon, 31 May 2010 21:08:53 GMT

I'm not 100 % clear on your advice Jelv.
When you say "reboot" I assume that refers to the computer. Does this imply that the computer as well as the router should be on all the time, or am I showing my ignorance and switching the router off and on is also described as rebooting?

Re: I WAS very happy

jelv — Mon, 31 May 2010 21:20:26 GMT

I was referring to the router. How much you turn your PC off/on will not make a jot of difference to your connection. That's the beauty of a router - it isolates what happens inside from affecting the connection.

Re: I WAS very happy

Roberto0151 — Mon, 31 May 2010 21:25:27 GMT

Thanks

Re: I WAS very happy

pierre_pierre — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 06:00:11 GMT

and by reboot the router, that does not mean turn the power off, from the router front page there should be a control button to disconnect, which then changes to connect, what type of router have you got?

Re: I WAS very happy

jelv — Tue, 01 Jun 2010 08:12:20 GMT

No Peter - not in this case. The point of the soft disconnect/reconnect via the router interface is that it does not drop sync with the exchange and just refreshes the connection to Plusnet (that's why it is the best way to refresh your Plusnet connection profile or 'gateway hop'). To educate the DLM at the exchange and get the best sync rate you need to do a full disconnect/reconnect and a reboot is the best way to do that (Netgear routers do have a reboot button on the diagnostics page).

Re: I WAS very happy

whistler — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 11:54:12 GMT

This whole business of how (apparantly) BT monitor line quality and when and how often we should or shouldn't reboot our routers has had me perplexed ever since I first came accross it on plusnet.
Can someone riddle me this please: The whole TCP/IP thing works on retransmitting packets that fail to reach EACH hop of their destination intact for whatever reason. If BT monitored the proportion of retransmits between my router and their exchange they'd have a completely accurate indication of line quality. Why on earth do they (BT) use a disconnection (or not) to "determine" (i.e. guess) whether there's a problem (or not) with line quality.

Re: I WAS very happy

jelv — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:30:17 GMT

Packets can be dropped because either end is trying to shove data down the line faster than the line or exchange or link from exchange to Plusnet can handle; so a dropped packet doesn't mean there is something wrong with the line.
If the inbuilt checking in TCP detects an error (eg CRC check) this gets logged and if there are too many the exchange will force a resync at a lower speed to try to get rid of the errors. Likewise if the noise margin falls too low a resync back to the target noise margin is forced which will also give a lower sync speed.

Re: I WAS very happy

whistler — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:43:11 GMT

Hi Jelv - thanks for your reply.
Not sure it's what you intended but you've made my point for me.

Quote from: jelv
Packets can be dropped because either end is trying to shove data down the line faster than the line or exchange or link from exchange to Plusnet can handle; so a dropped packet doesn't mean there is something wrong with the line.

Yes it does - it means the line is not fast enough for the data rate - therefore you'd respond by slowing down the data rate - my point exactly.

Quote from: jelv
If the inbuilt checking in TCP detects an error (eg CRC check) this gets logged and if there are too many the exchange will force a resync at a lower speed to try to get rid of the errors. Likewise if the noise margin falls too low a resync back to the target noise margin is forced which will also give a lower sync speed.

Again - exactly my point - so you agree that the exchange can determine whether or not to slow down (or even speed up) the line dependant on errors/re-trans. So presumably you agree that basing line speed on the totally arbitrary and irrelevant fact of whether I turn my router on or off is misconceived.

Re: I WAS very happy

whistler — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 11:06:10 GMT

Something I said?
As it looks like this might have gone into the too difficult bucket I'll just add this:
I live in a small hamlet in the countryside. For whatever reason we tend to get more than our fair share of short time power cuts - maybe lasting a couple of minutes or so. Of course when this happens amongst other things, my router reboots. That presumably can, depending on what time it is and whether there's an R in the month, result in BT slowing down my broadband. Genius!
Anyway I'm obviously flogging a dead horse... Let's just keep accepting this nonesense...

Re: I WAS very happy

jelv — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 11:38:00 GMT

http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&store=8&cat=193&subcat=1898

Re: I WAS very happy

whistler — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 12:02:09 GMT

cute jelv - to be honest I think that's a little beneath you. I'd expect that from your telephone support people but generally you guys are USUALLY better than this.

Re: I WAS very happy

pierre_pierre — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 12:11:46 GMT

I would have said that this is a perfectly good answer to your problem, it would keep your connection open for a fair while during a power cut, which is your problem, not the phone line

Re: I WAS very happy

whistler — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 13:45:38 GMT

Quote from: pierre_pierre
I would have said that this is a perfectly good answer to your problem, it would keep your connection open for a fair while during a power cut, which is your problem, not the phone line

Well PP you obviously havn't read the thread or my initial contribution to it then. My "problem" is that I asked for a reasoned explanation of ... well if your at all interested - read it - I'm not going to repeat it.
I think you also know that I was illustrating my point with the power cut story, not stating that as my "problem".
It's OK though - if you'd all prefer to dodge the point of my original question - fine. Just keep repeating ad-nauseum about router re-booting, don't question it, don't try to do anything about it. Sounds about par for the course doesn't it?