topic Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash in Plusnet Feedback

PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

CashForDetails — Sun, 11 Apr 2010 09:24:13 GMT

PlusNet has released thousands of customers details to a company called ACS Law for cash. This was in response to a court order that they complied with, uncontested as far as I know. This information is then used to accuse people of illegally uploading files and claim £300 - £600 a time by ACS Law. ACS Law are currently under investigation by the Solicitor's Regulation Authority, I believe.
PlusNet *could* have contested this, but why would a company owned by British Telecom bother trying to preserve freedom on the Internet - anyway, in my own personal opinion, the huge wad of cash that they probably got from ACS Law or their agent was probably an incentive.
If you don't want to end up potentially being hassled for cash in this situation, move to a company that has contested the court order. Google "ACS Law PlusNet" to find more, including a response from plus net explaining why they wanted all that cash and how sorry we should feel that they were "forced" to hand over thousands of details uncontested.
For legal reasons, I have to say that this is all my own personal opinion and might be wholly or partially factually incorrect so do your own research - educate yourself, then get a MAC code and move to a different provider!

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Fletch — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:41:41 GMT

For absolute clarity on this issue: at no point have Plusnet (or will do in the future) received any money for providing ACS Law with the detail which where requested via the court order.
Fletch

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

BRABUS — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:58:39 GMT

what sort of information have plusnet handed over. Is this for everysingle customer or just those who may be perceived to have done dodgy uploads?

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Chris — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:01:59 GMT

It'll be the details requested in the court order, this isn't for all customers.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Moominfish — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:28:13 GMT

What is the OP actually going on about? What details requested and when?

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Mand — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:36:51 GMT

From time to time we get court orders with requests for information regarding specific customers' assigned IP address at a particular time.
We comply with these requests, as do the vast majority of ISP's.
It's not just ACS, previously there have been other companies employed on behalf of rights holders to chase alleged copyright breaches.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Moominfish — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:39:09 GMT

So in other words if your a serial uploader (sending lots of copyrighted material to people) they want to know who you are, or it doesn't really matter if your a downloader/uploader they want to know regardless if it's copyrighted data being uploaded or downloaded?
Just want to have that clarified as I read that companies mainly target uploaders because their the ones sending the data to other people constantly each and every day, personally I think it's probably both but I wouldn't know for sure.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Mand — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:52:32 GMT

We don't know if the customer in question is being targeted for uploading or downloading, we just get the court order and deal with it.
We get other such requests for information too, from the police and such.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Moominfish — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:18:31 GMT

Fair enough, sounds like you get a shedload of requests by the sounds of it! Makes me wonder if all other isp's do as well? I mean how longs it all been happening, the whole receiving demands from the courts to reveal users information, and wouldn't the police also need a court order to get the information? I mean surely they can't just walk in and say give us this just because their the police, I mean their all for upholding the law so they should be following the same path of having to go to court to get the information out of Plusnet as an ISP.
That said I think for anyone suspected of really bad things (and we all know what type!!) the sick fucks then they should be instantly banned and disconnected for the rest of their lives.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Oldjim — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:25:35 GMT

Quote from: Moominfish
That said I think for anyone suspected of really bad things (and we all know what type!!) the sick [Censored] then they should be instantly banned and disconnected for the rest of their lives.

I really can't agree with that - as that is a presumption of guilt without a fair trial. There have been far too many cases of innocent people being incorrectly identified bi IP address.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Mand — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:28:14 GMT

The police need a court order too, I just meant that the originators of such requests aren't always acting on behalf of copyright holders.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Moominfish — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:33:57 GMT

Fair enough Mand,

Quote from: Oldjim
Quote from: Moominfish
That said I think for anyone suspected of really bad things (and we all know what type!!) the sick [Censored] then they should be instantly banned and disconnected for the rest of their lives.
I really can't agree with that - as that is a presumption of guilt without a fair trial. There have been far too many cases of innocent people being incorrectly identified bi IP address.

And in a way I agree with you Jim, but in another way I have 2 young children of my own and I personally think (and this is entirely my own opinion, no one elses, nor would I force anyone to agree with me) but I think people like that when caught with sick things like what I'm getting at on their computers that they don't deserve a fair trial as that's the lowest of the low, but that's a whole other topic which I'm not going to get into as it would just drag on forever.
Plus I'm biased because I've got 2 children which me and my partner will always protect, and I feel very strongly about how I'd deal with that type of person, anyway I'm gonna stop or I'll end up going on all night.
Thanks for your comments anyhow.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

BRABUS — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:49:05 GMT

cool, I was just worried originally by the post that my details including phone number had been passed on. But as the only things I upload are my car club web page and CCTV images from my house then I don't think I have anything to worry about.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

David_W — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:13:20 GMT

The sad fact Moominfish, is that the only people who commit that type of crime are the sort of people who would take their laptop to PC World for repair, but hide their online identity via proxies and what-not, the only true way to protect your children online is vigilance, I won't let my niece near my computer unless I can watch what she is doing.
The other sad fact is, some ISP's are not as good as PlusNet. They will give the information out, but the wrong information. IP Address XX.XX.XX.XX was connected at 11:32pm, who owned that? The ISP checks XX.XX.XX.XX but doesn't bother with the time, so they give the wrong name and address out. The person then, incorrectly, is automatically charged "guilty" and receives nasty letters saying "pay this or else!", it's downright thuggery and extortion.
If we reply to the letters we end up having to enter massive debates with the "lawyers" about why we shouldn't cough up, with threats of court action, legal bills etc. being thrown at us, if we don't reply they won't go away, although (afaik) the only case ever won was a case where the defendant didn't show up so was automatically ruled against him. This new system is even worse, be wrongly accused too many times and your ISP will have to throttle you heavily (or is it disconnect now too?).

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

pierre_pierre — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:21:28 GMT

out of interest I am careful what I do, and occasionally post copywright material, but is is clearly marked as such, never gave it a second thought until I got an e-mail from one originator, thanking me and giving me three month free usage in exchange, how about that, And it must have been a PN person who looked up my link

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

torbayguy — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 22:05:20 GMT

WOW what can I say... PARANOIA springs to mind.
How about all the ANPR cameras around, do you cover your number plate when you pass them?
How about buying goods, do you only pay in cash to remove the money trail?
Come on!!
If you have nothing to hide, then whats the problem?
Do you think Plusnet want to spends god knows how many man hours complying with court orders to hand over customer information?
And surely you cant beleive that it is only Plusnet that get these court orders?
Court orders and requested by certain authoritys, like the police.
It is not optional to comply with a court order, Plusnet doesnt have a choice.
Do you think criminals have the choice to go to prison or not, when it is ordered by a court?

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

Moominfish — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 00:10:08 GMT

Quote from: torbayguy
WOW what can I say... PARANOIA springs to mind.

It's not PARANOIA at all, it's not even the lower case version of paranoia! It's simply asking a question and waiting for an answer, plain and simples, now get back in your box, did I say you could come out to play!?

Quote from: torbayguy
How about all the ANPR cameras around, do you cover your number plate when you pass them?

I don't drive so no, but I do cover up the number plate of any bus I travel on, you know just in case........

Quote from: torbayguy
How about buying goods, do you only pay in cash to remove the money trail?

Yes....... apart from when I don't use cash and I use the debit card instead

Quote from: torbayguy
Come on!!
If you have nothing to hide, then whats the problem?

There is no problem see my 1st response regarding PARANOIA or paranoia, whichever one you choose is fine

Quote from: torbayguy
Do you think Plusnet want to spends god knows how many man hours complying with court orders to hand over customer information?

NO.

Quote from: torbayguy
And surely you cant beleive that it is only Plusnet that get these court orders?

See above.

Quote from: torbayguy
Court orders and requested by certain authoritys, like the police.

We know.

Quote from: torbayguy
It is not optional to comply with a court order, Plusnet doesnt have a choice.

See above.

Quote from: torbayguy
Do you think criminals have the choice to go to prison or not, when it is ordered by a court?

Obviously not, they did something wrong so they must be punished!

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

itsme — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 05:56:58 GMT

Quote from: pierre_pierre
And it must have been a PN person who looked up my link

If you got a static IP address I believe doing a rDNS will give your account name.

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

pierre_pierre — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 07:12:01 GMT

I havnt

Re: PluseNet sells thousands of customers details for cash

mrmarkus1981 — Tue, 13 Apr 2010 08:18:17 GMT

Various Court Orders can be viewed here : http://www.acs-law.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51