topic Re: Breach of contract in Plusnet Feedback

Breach of contract

cfmorris — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:30:45 GMT

When I applied to join Plusnet in December 2009 I was quoted a monthly subscription for the Plusnet Value package of £0.00 for the first 3 months, rising to £5.99 thereafter. I agreed to this and accepted a 12 month contract, which was quoted on my Welcome Letter.
I am now being informed that this was incorrect and I should now be paying £11.99 a month!!
I am considering referring the matter to Offcom for their jurisdiction, as it is a blatant breach of contract.
If I had been quoted £11.99 per month originally, I would probably not have signed up to Plusnet.
I left Tiscali/TalkTalk to escape from sneaky, underhanded price rises, but apparently they are still alive and well at Plusnet!

Re: Breach of contract

eightyfourb — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:02:33 GMT

Well that's rubbish if they did that.
I would report it if that is what happened but I would try writing to Plusnet first.
If Plusnet admit that the original offer was an error then they admitted that they actually did offer you that originally. In which case you should be allowed to leave without penalty.
I would try to work this out with Plusnet as it'll be easier.
i doubt they'll give you the original offer but they should let you out of the contract if they are admitting their mistake.
If they aren't admitting it was a mistake do you have the details of the original offer in writing or at least the name of the person who made you that offer?
Eddie

Re: Breach of contract

jelv — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:09:03 GMT

Which exchange are you on?

Re: Breach of contract

wurzel — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:17:01 GMT

cfmorris,
Did you join through CONFUSED.COM ?

Re: Breach of contract

scootie — Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:53:20 GMT

Quote
Which exchange are you on?

plusnet use BTw's new market class system which means more used exchanges have a lower price, so you want to see if your exchange is a market 1, 2 or 3 exchange.
try here for info on what market your exchange is http://www.samknows.com/broadband/search.php

Re: Breach of contract

Mand — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:39:42 GMT

Hi there,
I'll need to do a bit of digging on this one for you, as there seems to be some strangeness with your account, I'll come back to you as soon as I figure out what's happening here.

Re: Breach of contract

wurzel — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 11:50:01 GMT

Mand,
I am in a similar situation and I joined in January through a CONFUSED.COM Special Offer.
dick:quote

Re: Breach of contract

Mand — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:13:53 GMT

@cfmorris and wurzel,
This is an error in the welcome emails sent, however the signup journey when you signed up should have clearly stated that your ongoing price would be £11.99.

Re: Breach of contract

win7xp — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:09:08 GMT

OP signed up in december.
it is now march.
Were PN not aware that erroneous welcome e-mails were being sent to new customers ?
What corrective action did PN take and when ?
Seems very shoddy

Re: Breach of contract

Mand — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:42:04 GMT

I wasn't aware until today, however it seems a problem has been raised internally for around a month, however only a small number of customers have been affected.

Re: Breach of contract

shutter — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:59:00 GMT

From the Amazon Website...

Quote

What we do about mispricings
Despite our best efforts, a small number of the more than 1.5 million items in our catalogue are mispriced. Rest assured, however, that we verify prices as part of our dispatch procedures.
If an item's correct price is lower than our stated price, we charge the lower amount and send you the item.
If a product's correct price is higher than our stated price, we will cancel your order and notify you of that cancellation.
Please note that this policy applies only to products sold and shipped by Amazon.co.uk.

From this site......
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1979/cukpga_19790054_en_2#pt1-l1g1
Sale of Goods Act 1979 page 2 para 4

Quote

4 How contract of sale is made
(1)Subject to this and any other Act, a contract of sale may be made in writing (either with or without seal), or by word of mouth, or partly in writing and partly by word of mouth, or may be implied from the conduct of the parties.

para 8

Quote

8 Ascertainment of price
(1)The price in a contract of sale may be fixed by the contract, or may be left to be fixed in a manner agreed by the contract, or may be determined by the course of dealing between the parties.
(2)Where the price is not determined as mentioned in sub-section (1) above the buyer must pay a reasonable price.
(3)What is a reasonable price is a question of fact dependent on the circumstances of each particular case.

para 27

Quote

27 Duties of seller and buyer
It is the duty of the seller to deliver the goods, and of the buyer to accept and pay for them, in accordance with the terms of the contract of sale.

There may well be some other act that covers "mispriced goods"...... however, from reading the above, I suspect this is more of a "contract of sale" problem, as the "seller" (PlusNet) confirmed the conditions to the OP, and despite, or because of, this from Mand

Quote

@cfmorris and wurzel,
This is an error in the welcome emails sent, however the signup journey when you signed up should have clearly stated that your ongoing price would be £11.99.

PlusNet should honour the original contract of sale.....
Making "excuses" when an error has been found at a later date, is not a good way of solving this, and compounding that with "only a small number of customers have been affected"
The OP has been affected 100% and so have every one of the "small number of customers"......

Re: Breach of contract

shutter — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:05:17 GMT

Further investigation has revealed this site
http://www.which.co.uk/advice/your-rights-pricing-disputes/your-rights/index.jsp
and in particular this paragraph or two.....

Quote

After your order has been accepted
If your offer has been accepted (for example, you pay a deposit, or receive a confirmation email), generally you can insist that the retailer sells you the goods for the price they were advertised at.

If the retailer wants to charge you more, you may be able to buy the same item elsewhere and claim against the original trader for the difference in price. To do this you should write to the retailer in the first instance, explaining what you are doing. If it doesn't agree to refund you the money, you will normally then have to take a claim to the small claims court.
The trader could try to argue that it made a mistake with the pricing which could make the contract void. But it would have to show that the price was so low that you must have known it was not genuine: for example, a new leather jacket with a price tag of £2 on it.
After the transaction is completed
If a retailer sells you something at the wrong price, the transaction is completed and you have your goods, it can't insist that you pay the extra at a later date.
(my change of colours)

Re: Breach of contract

hulls — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:20:05 GMT

@Shutter
Good research! The act you want is the Supply of Goods and Services Act (the supply of broadband is the supply of a service not goods), but much of the content is broadly similar. That aside, there is certainly a contract, and part of that contract was the price that would be paid. By definition, the "Welcome email" would be sent after the contract had been agreed, and therefore any information in it would probably not form part of the contract itself.
What information about cost was provided before the OP signed up? If there wasn't any, then a "reasonable" charge could be made (and that's where the arguments will start )
If the original information was as quoted (and there wasn't the usual asterisk leading to clarification of the costs), then arguably the OP has a right to rely on that price. How Amazon chooses to do business is a matter for Amazon, as long as they comply with the minimum legal requirements.
As for the Which? information - there's lots of ifs and maybes. Again it relates to goods not services, and finally it's one thing to be in the right and quite another for it to be worthwhile fighting it.
In short - if PN agree that they got it wrong, I would agree that they should have to suck it up and accept the loss for a few months.
John

Re: Breach of contract

Mand — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:02:25 GMT

The signup journey displays the correct market price, going through signup and accepting the terms and conditions is deemed acceptance of that price.
The welcome email being incorrect in a small number of cases is a problem, and has been prioritised internally.

Re: Breach of contract

shutter — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:01:45 GMT

I think someone ought to get in touch with the original poster by "other means", to get this sorted out.....
the op states above....

Quote

When I applied to join Plusnet in December 2009 I was quoted a monthly subscription for the Plusnet Value package of £0.00 for the first 3 months, rising to £5.99 thereafter. I agreed to this and accepted a 12 month contract, which was quoted on my Welcome Letter.
I am now being informed that this was incorrect and I should now be paying £11.99 a month!!

Now Mand is saying that despite the "advertised product" (which "enticed" the OP to join Plusnet) saying one thing "The signup journey displays the correct market price etc., "
and admitting "The welcome email being incorrect" the OP claims he had a "Welcome Letter" confirming the package "as advertised". ...
If the OP had been sent a welcome letter, or email, that showed a different subscription rate than that which he had originally been "enticed" with, then I am sure he would not have signed up .
It appears to me, that PlusNet, is now saying that it advertises its product with one price, and then when you go
" through the signup and accepting the terms and conditions is deemed acceptance of that price. "
it can change the price and you have to accept it....regardless of what they advertised and confirm by "welcome letter".......
A contract is an agreement between two parties..... The customer agreed to one contract, but PlusNet are now proceeding with a different contract to what was originally agreed.
Now they are trying to "apologise" for their error, (which of course the customer knew nothing about) and also because "only a small number of cases" are involved, then it is right for PlusNet to proceed on the different contract, and quote T&C`s that were "a bit one sided" due to PlusNet not "agreeing to the OP`s T&C`s"....

Quote

When I applied to join Plusnet in December 2009 I was quoted a monthly subscription for the Plusnet Value package of £0.00 for the first 3 months, rising to £5.99 thereafter.

I agreed to this and accepted a 12 month contract, which was quoted on my Welcome Letter.

Re: Breach of contract

Mand — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:10:32 GMT

The welcome email is sent *after* the customer has signed up. The customer signs up to the price, and the terms, as detailed in the signup journey.

Re: Breach of contract

hulls — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:32:10 GMT

Quote from: hulls
...
By definition, the "Welcome email" would be sent after the contract had been agreed, and therefore any information in it would probably not form part of the contract itself.
...
If the original information was as quoted (and there wasn't the usual asterisk leading to clarification of the costs), then arguably the OP has a right to rely on that price. .....

I agree with Mand, that as long as the price was quoted at the time of sign up (although I hate the asterisk thing, where a price is quoted and then you have to go somewhere else to find that it doesn't apply to you), but if the asterisk information got missed for some reason, then (arguably) the OP could rely on the price advertised.
Aside from the contractual point, there is the issue of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (which replaced the old Trade Descriptions Act among other things) If the information wasn't made available, then there is a possibilty of criminal sanctions. If it was made available, but hidden, then that's a slightly different matter, and if it was ommitted, then again that's a different matter. I don't want to go into the details here, but everything relies on what information was actually given (or ommitted) that enticed the potential customer to sign up.
I also agree with Mand that any information in the "welcome email / letter" was after the contract had been agreed, and probably would not have an effect on the terms of the contract.
A screen shot of the advert might help to clear the whole thing up, but I agree with Shutter - it's good to talk
John

Re: Breach of contract

pierre_pierre — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:02:40 GMT

Confused.com takes you to the PN page which has this at the bottom

Quote
Stuff you need to know
If you leave Plusnet in your first 12 months after receiving a free set-up, router or house move, we'll charge you for these. If you remain with Plusnet for 12 months after receiving a free set-up, router or house move these charges will be waived. You can also choose to pay for any of these up front if you want more flexibility. Prices displayed are inclusive of VAT. View our terms and conditions.
* - Plusnet Value broadband starts at £5.99 a month for the first 3 months. If you live in one of our low cost areas you'll then pay this price every month. If you live outside of one of these areas you'll then pay £11.99 a month thereafter.

And they are not the first people to not read the bit at the top, its a repeated moan from new users

Re: Breach of contract

shutter — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:47:02 GMT

Which does not have anything to do with what the OP posted......
I suggest you re-read the Original Posting, Pierre, which starts off like this

Quote

When I applied to join Plusnet in December 2009 I was quoted a monthly subscription for the Plusnet Value package of £0.00 for the first 3 months, rising to £5.99 thereafter. I agreed to this and accepted a 12 month contract, which was quoted on my Welcome Letter.

You may think I`m stupid, but I do not see him complaining about having to pay for the router, or other bits if he leaves......
You may think I`m stupid, but I think his posting is referring to being quoted one price..... (£0.00) agreeing to that, and then being charged another price.....

Quote

I am now being informed that this was incorrect and I should now be paying £11.99 a month!!

and

Quote

If I had been quoted £11.99 per month originally, I would probably not have signed up to Plusnet.

Re: Breach of contract

pierre_pierre — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:54:28 GMT

it was said that he might have joined via confused dot and I followed that link and posted what I got it is what he would have seen as well and has been there for a year. the top of the page is different as is the one if you enter via Tiscalli, but the rest is the same. the only difference is the free period