topic Re: People who move to another supplier in Plusnet Feedback

People who move to another supplier

topher1 — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:44:48 GMT

I left Plus Net a short time ago for three reasons
1. Cheaper
2. Faster
3. No cap
My local exchange until recently has been totally bundled. Then O2 put in some equipment. It is ADSL2+. It can be up to 3 times faster (depending how far you are from the exchnge). Also by having an O2 mobile phone account, it is much cheaper. The first three months rental is free. Their 24/7 0800 xxx phone support is brilliant.
Until Plus Net starts buying some ADSL kit and lowering prices they will gradually loose business.
Come on PlusNet. Invest some money and get going. I will be curious to see if this post is removed. I will also be interested to see if |I get an answer.
Good luck,............Topher.
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Re: People who move to another supplier

zubel — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:18:29 GMT

Plusnet are tied to using BT's infrastructure, so their ADSL2+ product has to wait for BT exchange upgrades, (which are now happening)
Alternatively, Plusnet could put their own infrastructure into exchanges, at a MASSIVE cost which would have to be paid by the customer - they don't have large pools of cash to cross-subsidise with, unfortunately (and it wouldn't make economic sense, seeing as they're owned by BT)
B.

Re: People who move to another supplier

craigyoung — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:49:54 GMT

@topher1
Why would this post be removed? One thing PN have always demonstrated is that they are not afraid of discussing criticism and addressing customer concerns.

Re: People who move to another supplier

Lurker — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:00:29 GMT

Only extremely naive companies would assume that they are right for absolutely everybody; everybody wants and needs different things.
The thing each company needs to maintain is their core product line - so long as Plusnet deliver the service they promise in the way that they promise it, they are doing all they need to.
For those who don't want one of those packages, its expected that they would go somewhere that delivered something right for them.
Not all PN staff use PN as their ISP

Re: People who move to another supplier

James — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:33:53 GMT

Hi Topher,
I think you need to realise how much money you're talking about. To unbundle an exchange, you're looking at anything from £50,000 (for a very small exchange) to in excess of £1,000,000 (for a large one) based on the number of DSLAMs required and the backhaul requirements.
This article talk about various things, including costs associated with unbundling an exchange. It shows that the backhaul costs ALONE are in excess of £450,000 with annual running costs of £167,000.
Given that there's a number of thousand exchanges in the UK, do you think that we have around £1B to play with? Of course we don't. We're a tier 2 ISP, albeit with BT Retail backing, but it just wouldn't make financial sense to go around unbundling exchanges based on the ludicrous costs associated, especially when you consider the ongoing ADSL2+ upgrades that are going on throughout the country.
We do invest in our platform. We continually increase the amount of central capacity available to our customers, with a good example being the extra 155Mbps segment we added yesterday, which costs in the region of £350k per year.

Re: People who move to another supplier

topher1 — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:48:11 GMT

Hi Barry, James and Jameseh, Thanks for the clear and prompt replies. I understand the situation now. It seems to me that you are in difficult circumstances. I would hope that BT will give you some sort of priority as they install the new ADSL kit. By the way, I am not sure if this is common knowledge, but the increased speed with ADSL2+ also comes with greatly improved remote diagnostics, making the whole service better and cheaper.
Hi Cyoung, I am pleased to see that I can post criticism without it being removed. Well done Plus Net. So in the same vein, one thing that I notice from moving to O2 is their technical customer support. An 0800 number 24/7, and a very competent team. One night I phoned quite late and spoke to someone who I later discovered was a 2nd level team leader. I got a fantastic response. If any one is interested, I can say a lot more about why I find O2 so much better.
Regards,........Topher.

Re: People who move to another supplier

MuppetGrinder — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 12:44:32 GMT

Quote from: topher1
1. Cheaper
2. Faster
3. No cap

1. only if you are an O2 mobile customer, otherwise it's more expensive
2. ADSL2+ V's ADSL, that's a no brainer, but as there is no direct comparison to the same service not strictly true regarding the ISP's QoS.
3. sure there is a cap:- " However if we feel that your activities are so excessive that other customers are detrimentally affected, we may give you a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, if the levels of activity do not immediately decrease after the warning, we may terminate or suspend your Services." (lifted from the Fair Usage Pollicy) they just don't tell you what it is, and leave it open to variability at any time. (also note that they don't simply cut back on your P2P services if you go over the limit, the actualy kill your connection.

Quote from: topher1
...one thing that I notice from moving to O2 is their technical customer support. An 0800 number 24/7, and a very competent team. One night I phoned quite late and spoke to someone who I later discovered was a 2nd level team leader. I got a fantastic response....

I have spoken to several representatives from PN, from technical support through to sales, and every one of them has had a good knowledge of the technical aspects of the buisness, be they lvl2 team leaders or probie's.
Your reasons are flawed, as is your descision IMO. I personaly won't be looking for another ISP any time soon.

Re: People who move to another supplier

Lurker — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:11:30 GMT

Quote from: MuppetGrinder
Your reasons are flawed, as is your descision IMO. I personaly won't be looking for another ISP any time soon.

All are potentially valid.
The OP states that they are *his* reasons for switching. The OP *does not* state that these reasons will apply to everybody.
If he says its cheaper, its because for him, it it cheaper.
If he says its faster, its because for him, it is faster.
If he says there is no cap, its because for the usage he will use, there is no cap.
OK, the latter is pure guesswork, but I could happily move to O2 and not worry about the cap, I rarely download more than 1GB per month at home, thus from my POV, I wouldn't have to worry about a cap - I presume the OP is in a similar situation.
It does add credence to my point that each person has different requirements, and therefore different ISPs will suit different people.
PN is not the answer for everybody, but for those it is the answer for, they work hard to be the best.

Re: People who move to another supplier

HPsauce — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:45:13 GMT

Quote from: James_G
PN is not the answer for everybody, but for those it is the answer for, they work hard to be the best.

Which is why I continue to recommend them where appropriate (not for the referral bonuses) even though at present my needs are best served by another ISP (blame BT's slow ADSL2+ rollout for that).

Re: People who move to another supplier

topher1 — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:18:40 GMT

Wow, I am surprised by the response.
First to MuppetGrinder, I am sorry, but I don't agree.
1. Cheaper - Yes you are right, I had to switch to O2 mobile (not a big deal, they are slightly better than Onetel, my old supplier). I find this a significant point.
2. Faster - With PN I did get about 6 Meg. I now get 16 Meg with O2 (same wires!)
3. No cap - I was unpleasantly surprised one month with PN having to pay more for my apparent excess use. I am often away from the UK for more than a month and then use nothing at all. I do not expect this to happen with O2, (let's hope I wont get a nasty surprise). Thanks for pointing out the small print.
I have experienced customer support from PN and O2. I find O2 much better - note that it is my perception, I cant measure it, or prove it. The PN ticket system was slow and unsatisfactory, for me; I had to re-ask the same question a number of times. O2 just solve the problem quickly on the spot (if they can) when you phone them (0800 nbr and 24/7).
Secondly to James_G. I agree 100% with you. Your point of view is spot on. It is what the customer wants that counts and I am getting it with O2. MuppetGrinder is happy with PN, so that is fine for him. He also appears to be much more technically competent than me, so he probably has less difficulties when he has problems.
I think you may be all to young to remember this, but a long time ago Amstrad (Alan Sugar's company) brought out a PC. It suffered with over heating problems. All the technical journalists said it needed a fan like all the other PCs had. Amstrad said it did not. The heat dissipation design did not need a fan. Sales dropped. They put a fan in, sales rose again. So what the customer wants is important, even if he is wrong.
By the way can someone translate OP and IMO. I would like to know what they mean. Regards,......Topher.
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Re: People who move to another supplier

James — Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:20:01 GMT

Original Poster & In My Opinion.

Re: People who move to another supplier

Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:17:24 GMT

I occasionally have a glance around the web at different companies but I honestly couldn't leave PN as my connection is so good. I don't even think about 21CN very much because I don't need extra speed. As has been said, it really is horses for courses. Mobile contracts would be no good to me as I rarely use them.
Granted, I am not a demanding user, but I pay what I consider to be a reasonable sum for Homephone and broadband (with a bit of referral discount). In fact some years ago my telephone bills alone used to be as much as I am paying for telephone + broadband now.
Also, having spent two super days out visiting Plusnet the staff are not faceless folk and I can appreciate how hard they all work to give us a good service.

Re: People who move to another supplier

scootie — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 01:20:26 GMT

so OP how much does o2's broadband and mobile phone contract/pay as you go cost you a month?.
does it still work out cheaper than PN and a cheap phone contract/paygo off your own choice.
gd look with o2's dns severs. as when my sister was with them i was for ever connecting to here computer to change the dns to openDNS servers as half the web would not load. And not one snip of information on the website about the status of there network.
o2 have no staff members on there forums which i find gd here as i like to ask a question and get on with my day and find question answerd by PN staff and customers when iam not busy and have time to check. All without having to spend time with a phone attached to my ear.
but each to there own. i to know pN is not for every one.
its simple if you want to game,skype ect at any time of the day with out any network slow downs,exchange conntetion which last time i read o2 forums was a hot topic for most o2 users unlucky to be on an exchange with this problem then PN suits your needs.
if your not to botherd about your isps network preforming perfect 24/7 and uploading and downloading all day every day with risk of getting your thoughput thottled for going over that unpublished usage limit then O2's right for you.
shall i go on to o2 forum now and start a simler theard and take bets on how long b4 it gets removed by o2.?

Re: People who move to another supplier

Anotherone — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 03:51:13 GMT

Hi ASBO,
I think James_G 's posts (replies #3 & #7) summed it up well.
Also, I think it's worth saying that a friend of mine uses O2 (he has an O2 mobile) so gets the cheaper rate, and on the few rare occasions he's had to phone the 0800 support, his experiences have been the same as the OP. He also had a faulty modem/router which was replaced promptly, without debate and at no cost whatsoever. He's also doesn't suffer from problems of exchange contention, which anyone could be unlucky enough to get, whether unbundled or not. I'm sorry your/your sister's experiences have not been so good.
It is very much horses for courses.

Re: People who move to another supplier

Spider — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 07:30:39 GMT

Quote from: topher1
I left Plus Net a short time ago for three reasons
1. Cheaper
2. Faster
3. No cap
.... Their 24/7 0800 xxx phone support is brilliant.
Until Plus Net starts buying some ADSL kit and lowering prices they will gradually loose business.
Come on PlusNet. Invest some money and get going. ....

Ok, I am confused by your post. I take it you are saying if Plusnet improve on your current service with O2 then you come back to be a customer?
To take each point in turn.
1. Possible, possible but the only way to stop people jumping ship to the next ISP that is cheaper is to be either free or actually pay customers to stay.
2. Possible, but very subjective and dependent on a lot of issues and expectations.
3. Well that really depends on how you define the cap. If we are going for as much as feasibly possible within a 24 hour period without any speed restrictions then I can't see how that will work with point 1.
How can you improve on an O2s brilliant support? For that one I only can see another ISP being able to match it not better it. Of course I would expect all the customers of that ISP is get the same brilliant service, irrespective of the problem phoned in about. I would prefer to have a 100% good service rather than a 90% brilliant one as I am guessing the remaining 10% would be a lot of ranting to get things done.
Investing in infrastructure is a costly option. Now if the service as to be cheaper then you need more customers to cover those overheads. With more customers you need more investment in your internal structure and so the cycle continues till you go bust.

Re: People who move to another supplier

scootie — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:21:27 GMT

well afarid the exprince my sister had and my self phoning them on 2 ocasions differs greatly to the exprince of users of 02 here.
yes they answer the phones quick( well if they didnt then what the hell had they bein doing for all that time in the phone indursty so no surrpise they answer quick)
but i have posted about my exprince with o2 on here before.
when i tried to transfer my sisters o2 account on to my phone line to save her having to pay the get out of contract fee which had 3 months left to run and the 2 ocasions i rang o2 to make sure we could do a house move on the 02 account using my plusnet mac code i was told yes and i even asked for there team leader guy to confirm this and was told yes but guess what you ring them up with the mac code to find out they had lied to me.
thank god they did as i was ready to pack my xbox up for the 3 months i would of had them on my line.
gd luck paying the contract fee if you need to leave in the 12 months for any reason. its hell of alot more than it costs to leave PN in the 12 month contract period. and even after paying them there blood money they have the cheeck to ask for the router back
read your contract there is hidden charges left right and centre.

Re: People who move to another supplier

topher1 — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:39:36 GMT

Hi Spider,
I have put my answers to your post in italics.
Ok, I am confused by your post. I take it you are saying if Plusnet improve on your current service with O2 then you come back to be a customer?
Probably not. I doubt if they can better the O2 offering in terms of cost, speed and customer support. If they do, then I ought to come back. However with computers, if things work, I find it best to not change them.
To take each point in turn.
1. Possible, possible but the only way to stop people jumping ship to the next ISP that is cheaper is to be either free or actually pay customers to stay.
All you need to do is to be cheap enough to be interesting, say £2/month less.
2. Possible, but very subjective and dependent on a lot of issues and expectations.
For me not subjective at all, but very clear. PN = about 6 Meg, O2 = about 15 Meg. This is just tough for PN as they are unable to offer ADSL2+.
3. Well that really depends on how you define the cap. If we are going for as much as feasibly possible within a 24 hour period without any speed restrictions then I can't see how that will work with point 1.
I expect that my usage will be on the normal to low side as when with PN I only exceeded the limit for 1 month.
How can you improve on an O2s brilliant support? For that one I only can see another ISP being able to match it not better it. Of course I would expect all the customers of that ISP is get the same brilliant service, irrespective of the problem phoned in about. I would prefer to have a 100% good service rather than a 90% brilliant one as I am guessing the remaining 10% would be a lot of ranting to get things done.
The only way to be certain about customer support is to measure it. Which magazine (Sept 08) gave PN 4 out of 5 stars. They gave O2 5 out of 5 stars. My experience is that O2 are noticeably better. In all my phone calls, I would rate the response as good. In the one case when I was lucky enough to get a second level support person it was excellent. No ranting necessary.
Investing in infrastructure is a costly option. Now if the service as to be cheaper then you need more customers to cover those overheads. With more customers you need more investment in your internal structure and so the cycle continues till you go bust. Not necessarily. Which gave their best buy to one of the most expensive suppliers - Zen internet. They cost £17.99 per month. I don't agree with Which. But that is another discussion . . .
Regards,.................Topher

Re: People who move to another supplier

topher1 — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:04:48 GMT

Hi ASBO DOG,
Thanks for your question. My reply is in italics
so OP how much does o2's broadband and mobile phone contract/pay as you go cost you a month?.
does it still work out cheaper than PN and a cheap phone contract/paygo off your own choice.
With PN I was paying £9.75/month. The O2 offering is £7.34/month if you have an O2 mobile. This is a saving of £28.92 per year. However I opted for the ADSL2+ service to get faster speed not available from PN. This costs £9.79/month, so I am paying 48 pence a year extra to go from around 5 Meg to around 15 Meg. In order to keep the £7.34/month I have to top up my pay as you go O2 mobile with a minimum of £10 every three months. As I don't use the mobile much, I expect this to be OK.

gd look with o2's dns severs. as when my sister was with them i was for ever connecting to here computer to change the dns to openDNS servers as half the web would not load. And not one snip of information on the website about the status of there network.
o2 have no staff members on there forums which i find gd here as i like to ask a question and get on with my day and find question answerd by PN staff and customers when iam not busy and have time to check. All without having to spend time with a phone attached to my ear.
In my opinion it is easier to make a phone call and get a competent answer on the spot rather than type a ticket or forum post and have to wait for an answer. But this is a personal matter - as you say each to his own.
but each to there own. i to know pN is not for every one.
its simple if you want to game,skype ect at any time of the day with out any network slow downs,exchange conntetion which last time i read o2 forums was a hot topic for most o2 users unlucky to be on an exchange with this problem then PN suits your needs.
I dont have any experience on this. I use Betamax VoIP providers and make phone calls with no problem. Cheaper than Skype too.
if your not to botherd about your isps network preforming perfect 24/7 and uploading and downloading all day every day with risk of getting your thoughput thottled for going over that unpublished usage limit then O2's right for you.
My very limited experience with O2 is 100% availability. I would expect ADSL2+ to be more reliable than the standard ADSL. Time will tell.
shall i go on to o2 forum now and start a simler theard and take bets on how long b4 it gets removed by o2.?
Yes please. I will go and have a look.
Regards,................Topher.

Re: People who move to another supplier

Sat, 24 Jan 2009 13:31:57 GMT

Didn't fully scrutinize the mobile part of the deal so it was interesting to know what it involved i.e. topping up with PAYG minimum of £10 per month. Like you, I rarely use my mobile - in fact I have to ring home once a month to keep the connection.
In this event, would it not be fair to say that you actually can add £3.33p to the £7.34? This would equal a total outlay of £10.67 per month, slightly more expensive than PN? However, as you say, for you it would be money well spent for the extra speed.
Perhaps you can make a better appraisal of comparisons after experience of a few months with the service. Would be interesting to know, although as I said before, I am quite satisfied with the full package of telephone and broadband and also prefer the simplicity of just having one bill.

Re: People who move to another supplier

topher1 — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:20:50 GMT

Poppy, Hi,
It is not £10 per month. It is £10 every 3 months, but I think you spotted this because you say it is equivalent to £3.33 per month. You might consider leaving your mobile next to your home phone and use the mobile for the odd call. In this way you will get the benefit of the money you spend on the mobile. If you forget to do the top up they will send you an email to remind you. If you still don't top up they will charge the higher amount until you top up.
Excuse me if I am stating the obvious, but you need to check that your exchange has the faster service (ADSL2+) before you switch for the higher speed.
I will make a note in my diary and put an update here in 6 months time on how I find O2 in the longer term.
Regards,..........Topher.