topic Re: Landline closure? in Home Phone

Landline closure?

Becca23 — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 15:12:14 GMT

Hiya, I was just looking at changing my contract and noticed that the landline is being stopped? What does that actually mean in regards to the phone I currently have..will I still be able to use it? Any help would be great! Thanks

Re: Landline closure?

flanzm — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 15:28:02 GMT

Hi Becca,

Openreach are turning all PSTN landlines off nationally on 31/12/2025 (they use old technology, that is too expensive to upgrade for the relatively small number of people who want them). To get ready for this all new PlusNet contracts won't have landline any more. If you renew your contract it will be converted to what is known as SOGEA (basically broadband without a dial tone) and your phone number will be lost.

Unfortunatly PlusNet won't provide you with a landline any more. If you want to keep your landline number you need to port it to a VoIP provider, and then connect your phone to a telephone adaptor which plugs into your router. In theory you have 30 days from when you upgrade to SOGEA for a VoIP provider to port your old number to VoIP - this area is pretty new, and there is risk you may end up loosing your number. All in all, it's a bit of a mess to be honest, and hasn't been that widely talked about in the general media.

Re: Landline closure?

bmc — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 15:52:04 GMT

@Becca23

As stated you will need to set up a VOIP account if you want to keep using a land line. If you want to keep your phone number then you need to "port" it out ASAP after your account changes to SOGEA.

You'll need to research VOIP providers in advance so you have an idea of what to do. A&A seem to be a reliable provider basedon comments on this forum. See

https://www.aa.net.uk/voice-and-mobile/voip-information/

Brian

Re: Landline closure?

Mustrum — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:12:14 GMT

Alternatively you could move your broadband and phone to a supplier that provides Digital Voice - BT EE Sky or Talk Talk and others

Re: Landline closure?

JSHarris — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:17:53 GMT

Lots of other threads here about this, worth a read as I think just about evrey base has been covered:

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/landlines-are-being-fazed-out/td-p/1932724

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Voice-migration/td-p/1932900

https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Recommend-a-voip-account-only-service/m-p/1932495#U1932495

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/phone-change-over/td-p/1933885

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Will-Plusnet-use-EE-s-new-Digital-Home-Phone-to-replace-landline/td-p/1934570

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Will-plusnet-provide-a-voip-landline-service/td-p/1898912

https://community.plus.net/t5/Home-Phone/Switching-from-FTTC-to-a-VOIP-service/td-p/1932695

FWIW, I've bought a Cisco SPA112 analogue telephone adapter, connected it to my phone and broadband router and set up a VOIP service using Andrews & Arnold (£1.44/month, plus call charges). Works fine, no difference between using the phones with VOIP or using them plugged into the PSTN landline. If anything the voice quality on VOIP might be very slightly better than the landline, although our landline has always tended to be a little bit noisy at times.

Re: Landline closure?

Justin3 — Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:41:57 GMT

Hi, I thought it would be helpful to share my experiences of transferring my landline number to a VoIP (internet phone) provider when upgrading to a fibre-only package. Plusnet don’t offer VoIP, so you have to find an external provider. Like all landline providers, Plusnet will release the number to another provider, but there is much confusion over the process. The mechanics of the process is that when you sign up to the new provider, you request that the old number is transferred from your current provider to the new provider (you ask the new provider to do this). You will need to provide a Letter of Authority which the new provider will send to the old provider, for them to release the number. Now, for this to be successful, the current (or recent) provider must have control of the number when the request is received. In the past, this has produced a catch 22 situation: you need a current landline contract for the provider to have possession of the line, but as soon as the number transfers it cancels your existing contract, cutting off your broadband and potentially triggering early contract termination fees. However, in April 23, Ofcom’s General Conditions stated that providers must retain possession of your number for 1 month following cancellation of contract for the landline service (rather than returning it to the Range Holder – BT in the case of Plusnet numbers – and probably most others) , thus allowing for porting to occur after termination of the contract for the landline – thus avoiding the common situation where the landline is returned to the range holder and is effectively lost.
Plusnet’s T&Cs state that they are compliant with Ofcom’s General Conditions, so that all sounds good. However, there is much confusion at Plusnet over whether they actually support this post contract porting. I was keen to ensure that the process would run smoothly when upgrading to Full Fibre (FTTP), as my mother was very attached to the number in question, having had the same number for 60 years. I have today spent about 1:30 on the phone to Plusnet, exploring this topic. For the first 1:25, the message was a catagorical “you will lose your old number if you don’t port it prior to to cessation of your landline”. This message was repeated by multiple advisors from different departments. Each checked that they were giving me accurate information. I therefore raised an official complaint with them of non-compliance with Ofcom’s General Conditions. This prompted one further internal enquiry, this time to the ‘early life’ department (presumably, referring to early contract life issues). The outcome of this final enquiry was that Plusnet are indeed compliant with the regulations. I was given some history on this: Plusnet have had a system of internally quarantining landline numbers for quite some time – to allow them to reconnect Plusnet customers with their landline number in case of certain technical issues/lapsed contracts etc. However, in recent times, the quarantined number has been made available to other providers, thus supporting the Ofcom requirements on number porting after a landline contract has ended. Ofcom state that the request must be made within 1 month of termination.
So, if you get pushback from Plusnet, refer them to this post. Another problem that you may encounter is that some VoIP providers don’t understand the situation (e.g. Vonage currently state on their website that the landline must be live at the time of the request, otherwise you will lose the number). If that happens to you, explain to them that the number is still available for transfer (despite not showing as live) and that if they make the request, the number will be released. One provider who appears to understand the process is Andrews and Arnold - so you might want to have a look at them.
I’ve gone into a lot of detail in this post in the hope that it will help other Plusnet users who are keen to retain their landline number – and avoid them spending several hours researching the subject – with few definitive statements available on the subject online. Good luck!

Re: Landline closure?

encapsulated — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 08:53:50 GMT

Hi and thanks for sharing.

A&A do look impressive and I have been considering using them too. They do seem to be somewhat inconsistent in their advice though. They refer to plugging in their own supplied VOIP phone to your router, as you have done with the Cisco adapter, but they also have this technical article where they say that SIP over NAT is a very bad idea and we should be using a public IP address - https://support.aa.net.uk/VoIP_NAT

Are you able to share anything about your own router configuration and the Cisco adapter configuration?

Cheers

Re: Landline closure?

encapsulated — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 08:59:37 GMT

Also SJ, just seen that this product is no longer sold https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/unified-communications/spa112-2-port-phone-adapter/index.html

Re: Landline closure?

MisterW — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 09:25:12 GMT

but they also have this technical article where they say that SIP over NAT is a very bad idea and we should be using a public IP address

@encapsulated technically that's correct but in general it does work over NAT. I've been using SIP for about 5 years now over NAT, both at home and in the office PBX . The most you may need to do to work over NAT is to ensure that the sip device uses a NAT keepalive function to make sure that the 'pinhole' in the router firewall is kept open.

Re: Landline closure?

encapsulated — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 09:45:28 GMT

Thanks @MisterW good to know. It is just that if and when there are problems A&A imply you are on your own. My router is a Synology RT2600ac and has a SIP passthrough option - some debate about whether to enable this or disable it. Will try to find out more.

Re: Landline closure?

MisterW — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 10:07:36 GMT

@encapsulated many routers have a SIP ALG(or passthrough) function. In theory its a good idea but in practice many of the implementations are 'broken'. My starting point with any router is to disable it!.

There's some info here https://www.reddit.com/r/synology/comments/eprhzv/anyway_to_disable_sip_alg/

Re: Landline closure?

Baldrick1 — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 10:20:31 GMT

@flanzm wrote:

...all new PlusNet contracts won't have landline any more. If you renew your contract it will be converted to what is known as SOGEA (basically broadband without a dial tone) and your phone number will be lost.

Just to correct this statement.

You can no longer change you current broadband service, by this I mean that, for example, you can't swap from say Fibre to Fibre Extra and keep your landline phone with Plusnet. HOWEVER, currently you can renew your current contract and keep your phone with Plusnet.

If you are not offered this online simply ring the Customer Options Team on 0800 013 2632 and ask them. With the PSTN being switched off in just over 2 years there might be a limit on the length of contract on offer. This number is normally answered pretty quickly and it costs nothing to ask.

Re: Landline closure?

encapsulated — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 11:04:08 GMT

Phew @Baldrick1

My contract for phone and vDSL FTTC ends in December and based on what had previously been said I was starting to panic a bit. Question I am asking myself now is should I relax until I see how long a new contract I am offered or just get on with the inevitable while I still have some brain cells left (at 78) and port my number to VOIP (most likely with A&A)?

Can you tell me - If I was to start the port now would Plusnet keep my FTTC going? Perhaps I should check that with the Customer Options Team.

Re: Landline closure?

MisterW — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 11:13:04 GMT

Can you tell me - If I was to start the port now would Plusnet keep my FTTC going?

No! when you port a number to voip, the landline will be ceased. Since your FTTC contract is both a landline & broadband service , the contract is terminated and the broadband ceased.

Re: Landline closure?

encapsulated — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 11:37:23 GMT

He He @MisterW @Baldrick1

No! when you port a number to voip, the landline will be ceased. Since your FTTC contract is both a landline & broadband service , the contract is terminated and the broadband ceased.

I guess Plusnet realise that there are likely to be advantages in having the same supplier for VOIP and Broadband? It would exercise my brain cells rather more but it has not escaped me that A&A would also give the option of taking over the vDSL FTTC.

And this all started as we heard a discussion on Radio4 You and Yours re the demise of PSTN. Have had nothing directly from Plusnet.

Re: Landline closure?

bmc — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 11:48:32 GMT

@encapsulated

You should be able to change your PN service to SOGEA (internet only). As soon as that completes you can port your number out.

If going with A&A you can set your account up in advance so you're ready to iniatate the port as required. There would be a few days down time on the phone service.

Brian

Re: Landline closure?

JSHarris — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 11:57:41 GMT

@encapsulated wrote:

I guess Plusnet realise that there are likely to be advantages in having the same supplier for VOIP and Broadband? It would exercise my brain cells rather more but it has not escaped me that A&A would also give the option of taking over the vDSL FTTC.

And this all started as we heard a discussion on Radio4 You and Yours re the demise of PSTN. Have had nothing directly from Plusnet.

I agree, it would be a lot simpler and easier to have a single supplier for broadband and phone. I've been looking again at Andrews and Arnold, and am half-convinced that it may well be worth the extra to have broadband from them as well as a VOIP phone service. For VDSL broadband (essentially the same as I have now from Plusnet) plus a VOIP phone service from A&A I'd be paying around £12 to £15 a month more than I'm paying for phone and broadband at the moment. They also offer a reasonable data SIM, with a fixed IP, that would be ideal for our 4G emergency backup data/phone connection.

Re: Landline closure?

Baldrick1 — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 17:01:19 GMT

@encapsulated wrote:

Phew @Baldrick1

My contract for phone and vDSL FTTC ends in December and based on what had previously been said I was starting to panic a bit. Question I am asking myself now is should I relax until I see how long a new contract I am offered or just get on with the inevitable while I still have some brain cells left (at 78) and port my number to VOIP (most likely with A&A)?

The choice is yours.
Be aware that as soon as you move to SOGEA you lose your phone during a power cut. No electricity, no phone. Where I live the mobile masts are also knocked out. This will keep me with the old PSTN phone service for now.

If push comes to shove you can move to an ISP that also offers a VoIP phone service. This is not just BT, most offer both Internet access and phone. Alternatively you can move the phone to a VoIP company, there are many around. However this is not so straight forward.

Re: Landline closure?

JSHarris — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 17:24:58 GMT

@Baldrick1 wrote:

The choice is yours.
Be aware that as soon as you move to SOGEA you lose your phone during a power cut. No electricity, no phone. Where I live the mobile masts are also knocked out. This will keep me with the old PSTN phone service for now.

If push comes to shove you can move to an ISP that also offers a VoIP phone service. This is not just BT, most offer both Internet access and phone. Alternatively you can move the phone to a VoIP company, there are many around. However this is not so straight forward.

This is something that I think needs a great deal more emphasis. People are used to landline phones (mostly) always working, so finding that their "landline" stops working when there is a power cut (and when they may well need to use it for an emergency call) is most probably going to cause some consternation, perhaps even loss of life.

I've been looking as closely as I can at how robust alternative solutions are for emergency phone connectivity. Most obvious is that everyone reliant on a landline is going to have to install some sort of battery backup system to allow VOIP phones to continue to work during a power cut. Less obvious is that some fibre cabinets don't have much in the way of battery backup, so if you can't get FTTP then it's probable that even a battery-backed-up VOIP phone will fall over when the cabinet runs out of power (ours stops working after about 35 minutes now).

Mobile reliability seems to be a very mixed bag. We can't get a usable signal here on a phone, but can get one with a couple of high gain directional antennas on the roof, connected to a 4G gateway/router. What I've found is that some mobile masts have backup power. The key is to find the mast that is earmarked as part of the Emergency Services Network, I believe. Those masts have backup batteries and generators, so they can stay operational during a fairly prolonged power outage. By good fortune, the only mast I can connect to happens to be one of these ones with backup power.

Re: Landline closure?

JSHarris — Sat, 09 Sep 2023 18:08:17 GMT

Further to my earlier post referring to cost comparisons, I've spent a happy hour or so trying to put together a more accurate comparison between our current arrangement (Plusnet FTTC, with landline phone and evening and weekend call package) and switching to A&A for a complete package (only because Plusnet will not provide a complete package when the PSTN shuts down).

Not as clear cut as I thought, TBH, and a bit surprising in some respects, as the devil is in the detail. Because we need a robust phone solution when the power goes off (and we have the advantage of already having backup power) I've dismissed using FTTC for the phone. It's just not reliable enough, as it stops working not long after the grid fails. A&A offer a VOIP service for £1.44/month (plus VAT), plus call charges at ~1.5p/minute (plus VAT, charged to the nearest second), plus a data-only SIM at £2/month (plus VAT) and a data charge that equates to about £0.053 (plus VAT) per minute.

Ignoring the capital outlay for the 4G gateway/router, antenna, etc, it looks like our monthly landline costs will reduce from an average of about £11.93 to £3.87 (based on what we've paid over the past six months). That makes the ~£10 higher cost of having an A&A broadband connection as well very close to being the same overall monthly cost as our current Plusnet package. I will admit to being surprised by this, I really expected that the A&A total cost would be significantly greater.

Needless to say I think this may well swing it for us, given our own particular requirements. Shame, as I've never had any major issues with the service from Plusnet, and would very happily stick with them if they offered a complete (and reliable) +communications package after the PSTN shutdown.